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From: Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>
To: madvenka@linux.microsoft.com
Cc: kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com, linux-api@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, oleg@redhat.com,
	x86@kernel.org, luto@kernel.org, David.Laight@ACULAB.COM,
	fweimer@redhat.com, mark.rutland@arm.com, mic@digikod.net
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/4] [RFC] Implement Trampoline File Descriptor
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2020 10:14:26 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20200923081426.GA30279@amd> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20200922215326.4603-1-madvenka@linux.microsoft.com>

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Hi!

> Introduction
> ============
> 
> Dynamic code is used in many different user applications. Dynamic code is
> often generated at runtime. Dynamic code can also just be a pre-defined
> sequence of machine instructions in a data buffer. Examples of dynamic
> code are trampolines, JIT code, DBT code, etc.
> 
> Dynamic code is placed either in a data page or in a stack page. In order
> to execute dynamic code, the page it resides in needs to be mapped with
> execute permissions. Writable pages with execute permissions provide an
> attack surface for hackers. Attackers can use this to inject malicious
> code, modify existing code or do other harm.
> 
> To mitigate this, LSMs such as SELinux implement W^X. That is, they may not
> allow pages to have both write and execute permissions. This prevents
> dynamic code from executing and blocks applications that use it. To allow
> genuine applications to run, exceptions have to be made for them (by setting
> execmem, etc) which opens the door to security issues.
> 
> The W^X implementation today is not complete. There exist many user level
> tricks that can be used to load and execute dynamic code. E.g.,
> 
> - Load the code into a file and map the file with R-X.
> 
> - Load the code in an RW- page. Change the permissions to R--. Then,
>   change the permissions to R-X.
> 
> - Load the code in an RW- page. Remap the page with R-X to get a separate
>   mapping to the same underlying physical page.
> 
> IMO, these are all security holes as an attacker can exploit them to inject
> his own code.

IMO, you are smoking crack^H^H very seriously misunderstanding what
W^X is supposed to protect from.

W^X is not supposed to protect you from attackers that can already do
system calls. So loading code into a file then mapping the file as R-X
is in no way security hole in W^X.

If you want to provide protection from attackers that _can_ do system
calls, fine, but please don't talk about W^X and please specify what
types of attacks you want to prevent and why that's good thing.

Hint: attacker that can "Load the code into a file and map the file
with R-X." can probably also load the code into /foo and
os.system("/usr/bin/python /foo").

This is not first crazy patch from your company. Perhaps you should
have a person with strong Unix/Linux experience performing "straight
face test" on outgoing patches?

Best regards,
									Pavel
-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2020-09-23  8:14 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 50+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <210d7cd762d5307c2aa1676705b392bd445f1baa>
2020-09-16 15:08 ` madvenka
2020-09-16 15:08   ` [PATCH v2 1/4] [RFC] fs/trampfd: Implement the trampoline file descriptor API madvenka
2020-09-16 15:08   ` [PATCH v2 2/4] [RFC] x86/trampfd: Provide support for the trampoline file descriptor madvenka
2020-09-16 15:08   ` [PATCH v2 3/4] [RFC] arm64/trampfd: " madvenka
2020-09-16 15:08   ` [PATCH v2 4/4] [RFC] arm/trampfd: " madvenka
2020-09-17  1:04   ` [PATCH v2 0/4] [RFC] Implement Trampoline File Descriptor Florian Weimer
2020-09-17 15:36     ` Madhavan T. Venkataraman
2020-09-17 15:57       ` Madhavan T. Venkataraman
2020-09-17 16:01         ` Florian Weimer
2020-09-23  1:46       ` Arvind Sankar
2020-09-23  9:11         ` Arvind Sankar
2020-09-23 19:17           ` Madhavan T. Venkataraman
2020-09-23 19:51             ` Arvind Sankar
2020-09-23 23:51               ` Madhavan T. Venkataraman
2020-09-24 20:23               ` Madhavan T. Venkataraman
2020-09-24 20:52                 ` Florian Weimer
2020-09-25 22:22                   ` Madhavan T. Venkataraman
2020-09-27 18:25                     ` Madhavan T. Venkataraman
2020-09-24 22:13                 ` Pavel Machek
2020-09-24 23:43                 ` Arvind Sankar
2020-09-25 22:44                   ` Madhavan T. Venkataraman
2020-09-26 15:55                     ` Arvind Sankar
2020-09-27 17:59                       ` Madhavan T. Venkataraman
2020-09-22 21:53 ` madvenka
2020-09-22 21:53   ` [PATCH v2 1/4] [RFC] fs/trampfd: Implement the trampoline file descriptor API madvenka
2020-09-22 21:53   ` [PATCH v2 2/4] [RFC] x86/trampfd: Provide support for the trampoline file descriptor madvenka
2020-09-22 21:53   ` [PATCH v2 3/4] [RFC] arm64/trampfd: " madvenka
2020-09-22 21:53   ` [PATCH v2 4/4] [RFC] arm/trampfd: " madvenka
2020-09-22 21:54   ` [PATCH v2 0/4] [RFC] Implement Trampoline File Descriptor Madhavan T. Venkataraman
2020-09-23  8:14   ` Pavel Machek [this message]
2020-09-23  9:14     ` Solar Designer
2020-09-23 14:11       ` Solar Designer
2020-09-23 15:18         ` Pavel Machek
2020-09-23 18:00           ` Solar Designer
2020-09-23 18:21             ` Solar Designer
2020-09-23 14:39       ` Florian Weimer
2020-09-23 18:09         ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-09-23 18:11         ` Solar Designer
2020-09-23 18:49           ` Arvind Sankar
2020-09-23 23:53         ` Madhavan T. Venkataraman
2020-09-23 19:41       ` Madhavan T. Venkataraman
2020-09-23 18:10     ` James Morris
2020-09-23 18:32     ` Madhavan T. Venkataraman
2020-09-23  8:42   ` Pavel Machek
2020-09-23 18:56     ` Madhavan T. Venkataraman
2020-09-23 20:51       ` Pavel Machek
2020-09-23 23:04         ` Madhavan T. Venkataraman
2020-09-24 16:44         ` Mickaël Salaün
2020-09-24 22:05           ` Pavel Machek
2020-09-25 10:12             ` Mickaël Salaün

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