LKML Archive on lore.kernel.org
help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: john stultz <johnstul@us.ibm.com>
To: Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@polymtl.ca>
Cc: Tony Luck <tony.luck@intel.com>,
	bob.picco@hp.com, Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	Gregory Haskins <ghaskins@novell.com>,
	Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo <acme@ghostprotocols.net>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Tim Bird <tim.bird@am.sony.com>, Sam Ravnborg <sam@ravnborg.org>,
	"Frank Ch. Eigler" <fche@redhat.com>,
	Steven Rostedt <srostedt@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 13/22 -v2] handle accurate time keeping over long delays
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:25:14 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1200000314.30225.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20080110204259.GB5836@Krystal>


On Thu, 2008-01-10 at 15:42 -0500, Mathieu Desnoyers wrote:
> I think it's about time I introduce the approach I have taken for LTTng
> timestamping. Basically, one of the main issues with the clock sources
> is the xtime lock : having a read seqlock nested over a write seqlock is
> a really, really bad idea. This can happen with NMIs. Basically, it
> would cause a deadlock.
> 
> What I have done is an RCU algorithm that extends a 32 bits TSC (that's
> the case on MIPS, for instance) to 64 bits. The update of the MSBs is
> done by a periodical timer (fired often enough to make sure we always
> detect the 32 LSBs wrap-around) and the read-side only has to disable
> preemption.
> 
> I use a 2 slots array, each of them keeping, alternatively, the last 64
> bits counter value, to implement the RCU algorithm.
> 
> Since we are discussing time source modification, this is one that I
> would really like to see in the Linux kernel : it would provide the kind
> of time source needed for function entry/exit tracing and for generic
> kernel tracing as well.

Hmm. I know powerpc has had a similar lock-free dual structure method
and for just a raw cycles based method you've shown below (or for some
of the bits Steven is working on), I think it should be fine.

The concern I've had with this method for general timekeeping, is that
I'm not sure it can handle the frequency corrections made by NTP. Since
we have to make sure time does not jump backwards, consider this
exaggerated situation:

time = base + (now - last)*mult;

So we have two structures:
base: 60		base: 180
last: 10		last: 30
mult: 06		mult: 05

Where the second structure has just been updated lock-free, however just
before the atomic pointer switch we were preempted, or somehow delayed,
and some time has past.

Now imagine two cpus now race to get the time. Both read the same now
value, but get different structure pointer values. (Note: You can create
the same race if you reverse the order and grab the pointer first, then
the cycle. However I think this example makes it easier to understand).

now = 50
cpu1:
  60 + (50-10)*6 = 300
cpu2:
  180 + (50-30)*5 = 280


Alternatively:
now=50: 60 + (50-10)*6 = 300
now=51: 180 + (51-30)*5 = 285

Eek. That's not good.

I'm not sure how this can be avoided, but I'd be very interested in
hearing ideas! Bounding the issue is a possibility, but then starts to
run amok with NO_HZ and -rt deferment.

thanks
-john



  reply	other threads:[~2008-01-10 21:25 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 100+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-01-09 23:29 [RFC PATCH 00/22 -v2] mcount and latency tracing utility -v2 Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 01/22 -v2] Add basic support for gcc profiler instrumentation Steven Rostedt
2008-01-10 18:19   ` Jan Kiszka
2008-01-10 19:54     ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-10 23:02     ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-10 18:28   ` Sam Ravnborg
2008-01-10 19:10     ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 02/22 -v2] Annotate core code that should not be traced Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 03/22 -v2] x86_64: notrace annotations Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 04/22 -v2] add notrace annotations to vsyscall Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 05/22 -v2] add notrace annotations for NMI routines Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 06/22 -v2] mcount based trace in the form of a header file library Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 07/22 -v2] tracer add debugfs interface Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 08/22 -v2] mcount tracer output file Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 09/22 -v2] mcount tracer show task comm and pid Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 10/22 -v2] Add a symbol only trace output Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 11/22 -v2] Reset the tracer when started Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 12/22 -v2] separate out the percpu date into a percpu struct Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 13/22 -v2] handle accurate time keeping over long delays Steven Rostedt
2008-01-10  0:00   ` john stultz
2008-01-10  0:09     ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-10 19:54     ` Tony Luck
2008-01-10 20:15       ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-10 20:41         ` john stultz
2008-01-10 20:29       ` john stultz
2008-01-10 20:42         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-10 21:25           ` john stultz [this message]
2008-01-10 22:00             ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-10 22:40               ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-10 22:51               ` john stultz
2008-01-10 23:05                 ` john stultz
2008-01-10 21:33         ` [RFC PATCH 13/22 -v2] handle accurate time keeping over longdelays Luck, Tony
2008-01-10  0:19   ` [RFC PATCH 13/22 -v2] handle accurate time keeping over long delays john stultz
2008-01-10  0:25     ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 14/22 -v2] time keeping add cycle_raw for actual incrementation Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 15/22 -v2] initialize the clock source to jiffies clock Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 16/22 -v2] add get_monotonic_cycles Steven Rostedt
2008-01-10  3:28   ` Daniel Walker
2008-01-15 21:46   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-15 22:01     ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-15 22:03       ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-15 22:08       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-16  1:38         ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-16  3:17           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-16 13:17             ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-16 14:56               ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-16 15:06                 ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-16 15:28                   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-16 15:58                     ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-16 17:00                       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-16 17:49                         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-16 19:43                         ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-16 20:17                           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-16 20:45                             ` Tim Bird
2008-01-16 20:49                             ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-17 20:08                             ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-17 20:37                               ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2008-01-17 21:03                                 ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-18 22:26                                   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-18 22:49                                     ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-18 23:19                                       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-19  3:36                                         ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2008-01-19  3:55                                           ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-19  4:23                                             ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2008-01-19 15:29                                               ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-19  3:32                                       ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2008-01-16 18:01                       ` Tim Bird
2008-01-16 22:36                 ` john stultz
2008-01-16 22:51                   ` john stultz
2008-01-16 23:33                     ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-17  2:28                       ` john stultz
2008-01-17  2:40                         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-17  2:50                           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-17  3:02                             ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-17  3:21                             ` Paul Mackerras
2008-01-17  3:39                               ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-17  4:22                                 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-17  4:25                                 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-17  4:14                               ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-17 15:22                                 ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-17 17:46                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-01-17  2:51                           ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-16 23:39                     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-16 23:50                       ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-17  0:36                         ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-17  0:33                       ` john stultz
2008-01-17  2:20                         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-17  1:03                       ` Linus Torvalds
2008-01-17  1:35                         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-17  2:20                       ` john stultz
2008-01-17  2:35                         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 17/22 -v2] Add timestamps to tracer Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 18/22 -v2] Sort trace by timestamp Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 19/22 -v2] speed up the output of the tracer Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 20/22 -v2] Add latency_trace format tor tracer Steven Rostedt
2008-01-10  3:41   ` Daniel Walker
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 21/22 -v2] Split out specific tracing functions Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 22/22 -v2] Trace irq disabled critical timings Steven Rostedt
2008-01-10  3:58   ` Daniel Walker
2008-01-10 14:45     ` Steven Rostedt

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=1200000314.30225.30.camel@localhost.localdomain \
    --to=johnstul@us.ibm.com \
    --cc=a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl \
    --cc=acme@ghostprotocols.net \
    --cc=akpm@linux-foundation.org \
    --cc=bob.picco@hp.com \
    --cc=fche@redhat.com \
    --cc=ghaskins@novell.com \
    --cc=hch@infradead.org \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=mathieu.desnoyers@polymtl.ca \
    --cc=mingo@elte.hu \
    --cc=rostedt@goodmis.org \
    --cc=sam@ravnborg.org \
    --cc=srostedt@redhat.com \
    --cc=tglx@linutronix.de \
    --cc=tim.bird@am.sony.com \
    --cc=tony.luck@intel.com \
    --cc=torvalds@linux-foundation.org \
    --subject='Re: [RFC PATCH 13/22 -v2] handle accurate time keeping over long delays' \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).