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From: James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com>
To: James.Smart@Emulex.Com
Cc: ltuikov@yahoo.com,
	Kristen Carlson Accardi <kristen.c.accardi@intel.com>,
	linux-scsi <linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-ide <linux-ide@vger.kernel.org>,
	jeff@garzik.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] enclosure: add support for enclosure services
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:43:26 -0600	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1202921006.3109.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <47B3194C.7070809@emulex.com>

On Wed, 2008-02-13 at 11:22 -0500, James Smart wrote:
> James Bottomley wrote:
> > I don't disagree with that, but the fact is that there isn't such a
> > tool.   It's also a fact that the enterprise is reasonably unhappy with
> > the lack of an enclosure management infrastructure, since it's something
> > they got on all the other unix systems.
> 
> I don't disagree.
> 
> > I think a minimal infrastructure in-kernel does just about everything
> > the enterprise wants ... and since it's stateless, they can always use
> > direct connect tools in addition.
> > 
> > However, I'm happy to be proven wrong ... anyone on this thread is
> > welcome to come up with a userland enclosure infrastructure.  Once it
> > does everything the in-kernel one does (which is really about the
> > minimal possible set), I'll be glad to erase the in-kernel one.
> 
> yeah, but...  putting something new in, only to pull it later, is a bad
> paradigm for adding new mgmt interfaces. Believe me, I've felt users pain in
> the reverse flow : driver-specific stuff that then has to migrate to upstream
> interfaces, complicated by different pull points by different distros. You can
> migrate a management interface, but can you really remove/pull one out ?

That depends on the result.  I agree that migration will be a pain, so I
suppose I set the bar a bit low; the user tool needs to be a bit more
compelling; plus I'll manage the interface transition ... if there is
one; there's no such tool yet.

> Isn't it better to let the lack of an interface give motivation to create
> the "right" interface, once the "right way" is determined - which is what I
> thought we were discussing ?    or is this simply that there is no motivation
> until something exists, that people don't like, thus they become motivated ?

Well ... I did learn the latter from Andrew, so I thought I'd try it.
It's certainly true that the enclosure problem has been an issue for
over a decade, so there doesn't seem to be anything motivating anyone to
solve it.  I wouldn't have bothered except that I could see ad-hoc
in-kernel sysfs solutions beginning to appear.  At least this way they
can all present a unified interface.

James



  reply	other threads:[~2008-02-13 16:44 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 31+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-02-03 21:40 James Bottomley
2008-02-03 22:03 ` Sam Ravnborg
2008-02-04  0:16   ` James Bottomley
2008-02-06  0:12     ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-06  2:57       ` James Bottomley
2008-02-05  0:32 ` Luben Tuikov
2008-02-05  0:41   ` James Bottomley
2008-02-05  2:01     ` Luben Tuikov
2008-02-05  2:14       ` James Bottomley
2008-02-05  3:28         ` Luben Tuikov
2008-02-05  4:37           ` James Bottomley
2008-02-05  5:35             ` Luben Tuikov
2008-02-05 15:01               ` James Bottomley
2008-02-05 19:33                 ` Luben Tuikov
2008-02-05 20:29                   ` James Bottomley
2008-02-05 20:39                     ` Luben Tuikov
2008-02-12 18:22       ` Kristen Carlson Accardi
2008-02-12 18:45         ` James Bottomley
2008-02-12 19:07           ` Kristen Carlson Accardi
2008-02-12 19:28             ` James Bottomley
2008-02-13 17:45               ` Kristen Carlson Accardi
2008-02-13 18:17                 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-16 12:44                 ` Pavel Machek
2008-02-13  9:48           ` Luben Tuikov
2008-02-13 14:08             ` James Smart
2008-02-13 16:04               ` James Bottomley
2008-02-13 16:22                 ` James Smart
2008-02-13 16:43                   ` James Bottomley [this message]
2008-02-13 16:49                     ` James Smart
2008-02-12 19:45         ` Luben Tuikov
2008-02-13 11:15 Luben Tuikov

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