From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S262051AbUEWA5J (ORCPT ); Sat, 22 May 2004 20:57:09 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S262060AbUEWA5J (ORCPT ); Sat, 22 May 2004 20:57:09 -0400 Received: from mail8.atl.registeredsite.com ([64.224.219.82]:54716 "EHLO mail8.atl.registeredsite.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S262051AbUEWA5E (ORCPT ); Sat, 22 May 2004 20:57:04 -0400 Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 20:56:37 -0400 From: Vincent C Jones To: Benjamin Herrenschmidt Cc: root@chaos.analogic.com, Linux Kernel list Subject: Re: protecting source code in 2.6 Message-ID: <20040523005637.GA27792@NetworkingUnlimited.com> References: <1XVMB-8tQ-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <20040522145421.1585F16679@x23.networkingunlimited.com> <1085268253.9234.14.camel@gaston> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1085268253.9234.14.camel@gaston> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Sun, May 23, 2004 at 09:24:14AM +1000, Benjamin Herrenschmidt wrote: > > > Arguments tend to loose a lot of their impact when based on religion > > rather than realism. > > OK, then please, provide us with a strong & valid argument justifying > the interest in keeping a driver closed. > > Oh, and ATI or nVidia aren't good examples, just grep for the amount of > crashes caused by the later for example, look some of the backtraces > and see the horror... > > Ben. OK... Calm down... Take a deep breath... Take another one... Now go back and read the comment I was responding to... I was not and am not claiming that closed source is a "good thing." Rather, I was merely pointing out that there are huge numbers of people who WILL buy/use closed source, despite its disadvantages, if they think it is the most cost effective way to solve THEIR problem. The lack of quality in nVidia drivers reinforces, rather than negates, my comment. That people will use junk if they feel they have no option (look at the number of Windows ME users out there). Telling the original poster that he won't sell any hardware if he ships a closed driver is a blatant lie (look at wintel PCs and nVidia graphics cards) and does nothing to promote the cause. It only makes the Linux community look like a bunch of raving idiots who lack the common sense to drive a car less than 20 years old or heat their lunch in a microwave oven (a couple of very common applications which come to mind which are only available with closed software). I don't know about you, but even when I chose a piece of software to run on my personal computer, what I really care about is whether or not it solves MY problems at a price I can afford (which includes the total cost throughout the life of the projects I base on it). Whether the code I use is open or closed is only one of a wide range of considerations in determining the cost and effectiveness. Given the choice, I will choose open source over closed, but that was not even a consideration when I abandoned Microsoft years ago, (FWIW, moving to OS/2 for several years until Linux became a viable alternative). Nor was it a consideration when I moved from CP/M to DOS or from DOS to Windows... But I'm not interested in a flame war or even a prolonged discussion of the merits of open vs. closed software, and would prefer to discourage either. What I would like to see is more thinking before posting to keep discussions on target (solving problems that prevent or delay the support of Linux on the platforms and with the peripherals and applications which I want). Encouraging the original poster to keep his software open is one thing, but assuming he is a blithering idiot because he does not share your ideals is another. Fortunately, there was one, lonely soul who had the common sense to give him a few hints of where to look to find the rules for doing it with minimum damage. Vince -- Dr. Vincent C. Jones, PE Expert advice and a helping hand Computer Network Consultant for those who want to manage and Networking Unlimited, Inc. control their networking destiny 14 Dogwood Lane, Tenafly, NJ 07670 http://www.networkingunlimited.com VCJones@NetworkingUnlimited.com +1 201 568-7810 Fax: +1 201 568-7269