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* [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
@ 2007-01-25  1:50 Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
  2007-01-25  4:26 ` Greg KH
  2007-01-25 11:27 ` Pierre Ossman
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Christopher "Monty" Montgomery @ 2007-01-25  1:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: perex, greg, mclasen, jrb, Lennart Poettering, Pierre Ossman
  Cc: linux-kernel, alsa-devel, fedora-desktop-list

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 976 bytes --]

This patch was generated against 2.6.20-rc5; it fixes a bug that
cropped up in a late 2.6.19-mm kernel.

When ALSA's sysfs device creation was converted from using
class_device_create() to device_create(), the fourth param from
class_device_create() [dev] was simply plugged into arg 2 of
device_create().  This causes the device symlinks under all the
class/sound/[node] to point to nonsensical places.  Among other
problems, this breaks HAL and all audio software that depends on HAL.

The nature of this bug is not simply a need to update HAL;
class/[node]/device symlinks are required to point to a device entry
in /sys/devices; the bug causes them to point to other places within
/sys/class.  This patch is [hopefully] a trivial change to restore the
desired behavior.

Signed-off-by: Monty Montgomery <xiphmont@gmail.com>
---

Apologies for sending patch as text/plain attachment; we've
established in the past that Gmail will not leave unformatted text
email unmunged.

[-- Attachment #2: alsa-sysfs-fix-2.6.20-rc5.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 674 bytes --]

diff -uprN -X linux-2.6.20-rc5/Documentation/dontdiff linux-2.6.20-rc5/sound/core/sound.c linux-2.6.20-rc5-monty/sound/core/sound.c
--- linux-2.6.20-rc5/sound/core/sound.c	2007-01-12 13:54:26.000000000 -0500
+++ linux-2.6.20-rc5-monty/sound/core/sound.c	2007-01-24 20:30:07.000000000 -0500
@@ -265,7 +265,9 @@ int snd_register_device(int type, struct
 	snd_minors[minor] = preg;
 	if (card)
 		device = card->dev;
-	preg->dev = device_create(sound_class, device, MKDEV(major, minor),
+	preg->dev = device_create(sound_class, 
+				  (device?device->parent:NULL), 
+				  MKDEV(major, minor),
 				  "%s", name);
 	if (preg->dev)
 		dev_set_drvdata(preg->dev, private_data);

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-25  1:50 [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
@ 2007-01-25  4:26 ` Greg KH
  2007-01-25 14:11   ` Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
  2007-01-25 11:27 ` Pierre Ossman
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Greg KH @ 2007-01-25  4:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Christopher Monty Montgomery
  Cc: perex, mclasen, jrb, Lennart Poettering, Pierre Ossman,
	linux-kernel, alsa-devel, fedora-desktop-list

On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 08:50:06PM -0500, Christopher Monty Montgomery wrote:
> This patch was generated against 2.6.20-rc5; it fixes a bug that
> cropped up in a late 2.6.19-mm kernel.
> 
> When ALSA's sysfs device creation was converted from using
> class_device_create() to device_create(), the fourth param from
> class_device_create() [dev] was simply plugged into arg 2 of
> device_create().  This causes the device symlinks under all the
> class/sound/[node] to point to nonsensical places.  Among other
> problems, this breaks HAL and all audio software that depends on HAL.

I don't understand, where does the symlink currently point to?  It looks
correct to me on my machines:

$ tree /sys/class/sound/
/sys/class/sound/
|-- card0 -> ../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/card0
|-- controlC0 -> ../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/card0/controlC0
|-- pcmC0D0c -> ../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/card0/pcmC0D0c
|-- pcmC0D0p -> ../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/card0/pcmC0D0p
|-- pcmC0D2c -> ../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/card0/pcmC0D2c
|-- pcmC0D6c -> ../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/card0/pcmC0D6c
|-- pcmC0D6p -> ../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/card0/pcmC0D6p
`-- timer -> ../../devices/virtual/sound/timer

What do the symlinks look on your machine?

thanks,

greg k-h

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-25  1:50 [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
  2007-01-25  4:26 ` Greg KH
@ 2007-01-25 11:27 ` Pierre Ossman
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Pierre Ossman @ 2007-01-25 11:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
  Cc: perex, greg, mclasen, jrb, Lennart Poettering, linux-kernel,
	alsa-devel, fedora-desktop-list

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 750 bytes --]

Christopher "Monty" Montgomery wrote:
> This patch was generated against 2.6.20-rc5; it fixes a bug that
> cropped up in a late 2.6.19-mm kernel.
> 
> When ALSA's sysfs device creation was converted from using
> class_device_create() to device_create(), the fourth param from
> class_device_create() [dev] was simply plugged into arg 2 of
> device_create().  This causes the device symlinks under all the
> class/sound/[node] to point to nonsensical places.  Among other
> problems, this breaks HAL and all audio software that depends on HAL.
> 

There are no device symlinks anymore, so the current behaviour seems
correct. HAL should follow the symlink, then move up in the device tree
to find a suitable parent.

Rgds
Pierre



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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-25  4:26 ` Greg KH
@ 2007-01-25 14:11   ` Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
  2007-01-25 15:15     ` Pierre Ossman
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Christopher "Monty" Montgomery @ 2007-01-25 14:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Greg KH
  Cc: perex, mclasen, jrb, Lennart Poettering, Pierre Ossman,
	linux-kernel, alsa-devel, fedora-desktop-list

On 1/24/07, Greg KH <greg@kroah.com> wrote:
> I don't understand, where does the symlink currently point to?  It looks
> correct to me on my machines:

My machines and the fedora rawhide machines using the 2.6.20-rcX
releases look nothing like what you pasted.  If they did, hald would
be working...  (I'll note that bugs have also been logged against
Pulse and HAL by users having trouble, so it's not just us.)

What you said you have:

> $ tree /sys/class/sound/
> /sys/class/sound/
> |-- card0 -> ../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/card0
> |-- controlC0 -> ../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/card0/controlC0
> |-- pcmC0D0c -> ../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/card0/pcmC0D0c
> |-- pcmC0D0p -> ../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/card0/pcmC0D0p
> |-- pcmC0D2c -> ../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/card0/pcmC0D2c
> |-- pcmC0D6c -> ../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/card0/pcmC0D6c
> |-- pcmC0D6p -> ../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/card0/pcmC0D6p
> `-- timer -> ../../devices/virtual/sound/timer

What we actually have here:
/sys/class/sound/
|-- adsp
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card0
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- audio
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card0
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- audio1
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card1
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- card0
|   |-- 0-0:AD1981B
|   |   |-- bus -> ../../../../bus/ac97
|   |   |-- power
|   |   |   `-- wakeup
|   |   |-- subsystem -> ../../../../bus/ac97
|   |   `-- uevent
|   |-- device -> ../../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1f.5
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- sound:adsp -> ../../../class/sound/adsp
|   |-- sound:audio -> ../../../class/sound/audio
|   |-- sound:controlC0 -> ../../../class/sound/controlC0
|   |-- sound:dsp -> ../../../class/sound/dsp
|   |-- sound:mixer -> ../../../class/sound/mixer
|   |-- sound:pcmC0D0c -> ../../../class/sound/pcmC0D0c
|   |-- sound:pcmC0D0p -> ../../../class/sound/pcmC0D0p
|   |-- sound:pcmC0D1c -> ../../../class/sound/pcmC0D1c
|   |-- sound:pcmC0D2c -> ../../../class/sound/pcmC0D2c
|   |-- sound:pcmC0D3c -> ../../../class/sound/pcmC0D3c
|   |-- sound:pcmC0D4p -> ../../../class/sound/pcmC0D4p
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- card1
|   |-- 1-1:unknown codec
|   |   |-- bus -> ../../../../bus/ac97
|   |   |-- power
|   |   |   `-- wakeup
|   |   |-- subsystem -> ../../../../bus/ac97
|   |   `-- uevent
|   |-- device -> ../../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1f.6
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- sound:audio1 -> ../../../class/sound/audio1
|   |-- sound:controlC1 -> ../../../class/sound/controlC1
|   |-- sound:dsp1 -> ../../../class/sound/dsp1
|   |-- sound:mixer1 -> ../../../class/sound/mixer1
|   |-- sound:pcmC1D0c -> ../../../class/sound/pcmC1D0c
|   |-- sound:pcmC1D0p -> ../../../class/sound/pcmC1D0p
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- controlC0
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card0
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- controlC1
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card1
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- dsp
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card0
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- dsp1
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card1
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- mixer
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card0
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- mixer1
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card1
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- pcmC0D0c
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card0
|   |-- pcm_class
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- pcmC0D0p
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card0
|   |-- pcm_class
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- pcmC0D1c
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card0
|   |-- pcm_class
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- pcmC0D2c
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card0
|   |-- pcm_class
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- pcmC0D3c
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card0
|   |-- pcm_class
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- pcmC0D4p
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card0
|   |-- pcm_class
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- pcmC1D0c
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card1
|   |-- pcm_class
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- pcmC1D0p
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card1
|   |-- pcm_class
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- seq
|   |-- dev
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- sequencer
|   |-- dev
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- sequencer2
|   |-- dev
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
`-- timer
    |-- dev
    |-- power
    |   `-- wakeup
    |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
    `-- uevent

In other words... no resemblance whatsoever, so something is obviously
very wrong.  That is a vanilla 2.6.20-rc5 build on a fedora rawhide
machine, the rawhide-tweaked kernel and 2.6.19-rc6-mm2 produces the
same results.

With my patch, at least the 'old' entries for the pcm devices are as
before (The patch doesn't 'correct' anything for the device types
other than pcm and control, adsp and audio are still messed):

/sys/class/sound/
|-- adsp
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card0
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- audio
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card0
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- audio1
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card1
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- card0
|   |-- 0-0:AD1981B
|   |   |-- bus -> ../../../../bus/ac97
|   |   |-- power
|   |   |   `-- wakeup
|   |   |-- subsystem -> ../../../../bus/ac97
|   |   `-- uevent
|   |-- device -> ../../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1f.5
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- sound:adsp -> ../../../class/sound/adsp
|   |-- sound:audio -> ../../../class/sound/audio
|   |-- sound:dsp -> ../../../class/sound/dsp
|   |-- sound:mixer -> ../../../class/sound/mixer
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- card1
|   |-- 1-1:unknown codec
|   |   |-- bus -> ../../../../bus/ac97
|   |   |-- power
|   |   |   `-- wakeup
|   |   |-- subsystem -> ../../../../bus/ac97
|   |   `-- uevent
|   |-- device -> ../../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1f.6
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- sound:audio1 -> ../../../class/sound/audio1
|   |-- sound:dsp1 -> ../../../class/sound/dsp1
|   |-- sound:mixer1 -> ../../../class/sound/mixer1
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- controlC0
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1f.5
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- controlC1
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1f.6
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- dsp
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card0
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- dsp1
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card1
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- mixer
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card0
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- mixer1
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card1
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- pcmC0D0c
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1f.5
|   |-- pcm_class
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- pcmC0D0p
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1f.5
|   |-- pcm_class
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- pcmC0D1c
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1f.5
|   |-- pcm_class
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- pcmC0D2c
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1f.5
|   |-- pcm_class
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- pcmC0D3c
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1f.5
|   |-- pcm_class
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- pcmC0D4p
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1f.5
|   |-- pcm_class
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- pcmC1D0c
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1f.6
|   |-- pcm_class
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- pcmC1D0p
|   |-- dev
|   |-- device -> ../../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1f.6
|   |-- pcm_class
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- seq
|   |-- dev
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- sequencer
|   |-- dev
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
|-- sequencer2
|   |-- dev
|   |-- power
|   |   `-- wakeup
|   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
|   `-- uevent
`-- timer
    |-- dev
    |-- power
    |   `-- wakeup
    |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
    `-- uevent

Monty

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-25 14:11   ` Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
@ 2007-01-25 15:15     ` Pierre Ossman
  2007-01-25 15:36       ` Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Pierre Ossman @ 2007-01-25 15:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
  Cc: Greg KH, perex, mclasen, jrb, Lennart Poettering, linux-kernel,
	alsa-devel, fedora-desktop-list

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 450 bytes --]

Christopher "Monty" Montgomery wrote:
> 
> My machines and the fedora rawhide machines using the 2.6.20-rcX
> releases look nothing like what you pasted.  If they did, hald would
> be working...  (I'll note that bugs have also been logged against
> Pulse and HAL by users having trouble, so it's not just us.)

On my vanilla 2.6.20-rc5, I get the same structure as Greg. Yet hal
still doesn't pick stuff up as it should.

Rgds
Pierre



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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-25 15:15     ` Pierre Ossman
@ 2007-01-25 15:36       ` Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
  2007-01-25 15:40         ` Pierre Ossman
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Christopher "Monty" Montgomery @ 2007-01-25 15:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Pierre Ossman
  Cc: Greg KH, perex, mclasen, jrb, Lennart Poettering, linux-kernel,
	alsa-devel, fedora-desktop-list

On 1/25/07, Pierre Ossman <drzeus@drzeus.cx> wrote:
> Christopher "Monty" Montgomery wrote:
> >
> > My machines and the fedora rawhide machines using the 2.6.20-rcX
> > releases look nothing like what you pasted.  If they did, hald would
> > be working...  (I'll note that bugs have also been logged against
> > Pulse and HAL by users having trouble, so it's not just us.)
>
> On my vanilla 2.6.20-rc5, I get the same structure as Greg. Yet hal
> still doesn't pick stuff up as it should.

Interesting to know.  Looking more closely, it looks like machines
here are split between the messed up output I forwarded previously and
the output that is expected.  All of my personal boxes are messed up.

Having looked at HAL earlier, it appeared to have code to parse the
new format but if it desn't work, it doesn't work.  Updating HAL is
relatively easy but I can't test the changes on my own boxes because
they have the messed up /sys/class/sound structure.

Monty

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-25 15:36       ` Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
@ 2007-01-25 15:40         ` Pierre Ossman
  2007-01-25 15:57           ` Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Pierre Ossman @ 2007-01-25 15:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
  Cc: Greg KH, perex, mclasen, jrb, Lennart Poettering, linux-kernel,
	alsa-devel, fedora-desktop-list

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 442 bytes --]

Christopher "Monty" Montgomery wrote:
> 
> Interesting to know.  Looking more closely, it looks like machines
> here are split between the messed up output I forwarded previously and
> the output that is expected.  All of my personal boxes are messed up.
> 

There is some option about deprecated sysfs stuff. Perhaps this is the
cause of your twisted tree. It's off here:

# CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED is not set

Rgds
Pierre



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[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 251 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-25 15:40         ` Pierre Ossman
@ 2007-01-25 15:57           ` Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
  2007-01-25 16:54             ` [Alsa-devel] " Takashi Iwai
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Christopher "Monty" Montgomery @ 2007-01-25 15:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Pierre Ossman
  Cc: Greg KH, perex, mclasen, jrb, Lennart Poettering, linux-kernel,
	alsa-devel, fedora-desktop-list

On 1/25/07, Pierre Ossman <drzeus@drzeus.cx> wrote:

> There is some option about deprecated sysfs stuff. Perhaps this is the
> cause of your twisted tree. It's off here:
>
> # CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED is not set

It is set.  It is also set in the default config, so plently of people
are running with a broken sysfs tree.

I assume we agree that even if that's set, the tree should not be
outright broken like it is (the compatability mode should actually be
compatable, ie, work, right? :-)  Given that, is my patch correct?
What was there (plugging the old 'dev' arg into the new call's
'parent' makes no sense) is clearly wrong.

And it's clear my pacth is incomplete, as it doesn't correct the
device entries for the other entries.

Monty

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [Alsa-devel] [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-25 15:57           ` Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
@ 2007-01-25 16:54             ` Takashi Iwai
  2007-01-25 17:03               ` Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Takashi Iwai @ 2007-01-25 16:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
  Cc: Pierre Ossman, fedora-desktop-list, alsa-devel, jrb, Greg KH,
	linux-kernel, mclasen, Lennart Poettering, perex

At Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:57:25 -0500,
Christopher "Monty" Montgomery wrote:
> 
> On 1/25/07, Pierre Ossman <drzeus@drzeus.cx> wrote:
> 
> > There is some option about deprecated sysfs stuff. Perhaps this is the
> > cause of your twisted tree. It's off here:
> >
> > # CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED is not set
> 
> It is set.  It is also set in the default config, so plently of people
> are running with a broken sysfs tree.
> 
> I assume we agree that even if that's set, the tree should not be
> outright broken like it is (the compatability mode should actually be
> compatable, ie, work, right? :-)  Given that, is my patch correct?
> What was there (plugging the old 'dev' arg into the new call's
> 'parent' makes no sense) is clearly wrong.

It makes sense because the meaning of card->dev was changed, too.
Now it points the "card*" object that is the root of all belonging
devices.  The former card->dev is stored in card->parent.

> And it's clear my pacth is incomplete, as it doesn't correct the
> device entries for the other entries.

Well, for older systems, we shouldn't have also "card*" objects, too.
An untested patch below...


Takashi

diff -r 64671853e8e2 core/init.c
--- a/core/init.c	Thu Jan 25 13:15:05 2007 +0100
+++ b/core/init.c	Thu Jan 25 17:50:06 2007 +0100
@@ -503,12 +503,14 @@ int snd_card_register(struct snd_card *c
 	int err;
 
 	snd_assert(card != NULL, return -EINVAL);
+#ifndef CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED
 	if (!card->dev) {
 		card->dev = device_create(sound_class, card->parent, 0,
 					  "card%i", card->number);
 		if (IS_ERR(card->dev))
 			card->dev = NULL;
 	}
+#endif
 	if ((err = snd_device_register_all(card)) < 0)
 		return err;
 	mutex_lock(&snd_card_mutex);
diff -r 64671853e8e2 core/sound.c
--- a/core/sound.c	Thu Jan 25 13:15:05 2007 +0100
+++ b/core/sound.c	Thu Jan 25 17:50:40 2007 +0100
@@ -241,6 +241,9 @@ int snd_register_device_for_dev(int type
 	int minor;
 	struct snd_minor *preg;
 
+	if (!device && !card)
+		device = card->parent;
+
 	snd_assert(name, return -EINVAL);
 	preg = kmalloc(sizeof *preg, GFP_KERNEL);
 	if (preg == NULL)

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [Alsa-devel] [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-25 16:54             ` [Alsa-devel] " Takashi Iwai
@ 2007-01-25 17:03               ` Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
  2007-01-25 17:30                 ` xiphmont
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Christopher "Monty" Montgomery @ 2007-01-25 17:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Takashi Iwai
  Cc: Pierre Ossman, fedora-desktop-list, alsa-devel, jrb, Greg KH,
	linux-kernel, mclasen, Lennart Poettering, perex

> > What was there (plugging the old 'dev' arg into the new call's
> > 'parent' makes no sense) is clearly wrong.
>
> It makes sense because the meaning of card->dev was changed, too.
> Now it points the "card*" object that is the root of all belonging
> devices.  The former card->dev is stored in card->parent.

Unfortunately card->parent does not work... but card->dev->parent does...

> > And it's clear my pacth is incomplete, as it doesn't correct the
> > device entries for the other entries.
>
> Well, for older systems, we shouldn't have also "card*" objects, too.

True enough.

> An untested patch below...

This patch does not correct the problem, unfortunately.  I had
originally tried something similar, but card->parent still results in
the device symlink pointing to ../../../class/cardN.

I'm working on this now and will doublecheck just in case my test was
flawed first time.

Monty

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [Alsa-devel] [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-25 17:03               ` Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
@ 2007-01-25 17:30                 ` xiphmont
  2007-01-25 17:47                   ` Takashi Iwai
  2007-01-25 17:48                   ` Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: xiphmont @ 2007-01-25 17:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Takashi Iwai
  Cc: Pierre Ossman, fedora-desktop-list, alsa-devel, jrb, Greg KH,
	linux-kernel, mclasen, Lennart Poettering, perex

> I'm working on this now and will doublecheck just in case my test was
> flawed first time.

Doublechecking indicates my initial test was wrong somehow; both
card->dev->parent and card->parent passed as arg 2 to the
device_create call in snd_register_device result in correct device
symlinks. Are these two actually semantically different?  I'm just
curious.

The call to device_create in cound_core.c:sound_insert_unit also needs
to be modified in order for the device symlinks in the other unit
types to be correct.  Again, modifying the 'dev' argument to
'(dev?dev->parent:NULL)' appears to fix the problem.  Is that
correct/appropriate there?

Monty

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [Alsa-devel] [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-25 17:30                 ` xiphmont
@ 2007-01-25 17:47                   ` Takashi Iwai
  2007-01-25 18:07                     ` xiphmont
  2007-01-25 17:48                   ` Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Takashi Iwai @ 2007-01-25 17:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: xiphmont
  Cc: Pierre Ossman, fedora-desktop-list, alsa-devel, jrb, Greg KH,
	linux-kernel, mclasen, Lennart Poettering, perex

At Thu, 25 Jan 2007 12:30:44 -0500,
xiphmont@xiph.org wrote:
> 
> > I'm working on this now and will doublecheck just in case my test was
> > flawed first time.
> 
> Doublechecking indicates my initial test was wrong somehow; both
> card->dev->parent and card->parent passed as arg 2 to the
> device_create call in snd_register_device result in correct device
> symlinks. Are these two actually semantically different?  I'm just
> curious.

If card->dev is created, they should be identical.
But, again, card->dev should be NULL on the older systems.

> The call to device_create in cound_core.c:sound_insert_unit also needs
> to be modified in order for the device symlinks in the other unit
> types to be correct.  Again, modifying the 'dev' argument to
> '(dev?dev->parent:NULL)' appears to fix the problem.  Is that
> correct/appropriate there?

Your change breaks the expected heavior if CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED is
enabled.  Then devices won't belong to card* objects any more...


Takashi

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [Alsa-devel] [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-25 17:30                 ` xiphmont
  2007-01-25 17:47                   ` Takashi Iwai
@ 2007-01-25 17:48                   ` Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Christopher "Monty" Montgomery @ 2007-01-25 17:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Takashi Iwai
  Cc: Pierre Ossman, fedora-desktop-list, alsa-devel, jrb, Greg KH,
	linux-kernel, mclasen, Lennart Poettering, perex

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 124 bytes --]

Updated version of patch also taking into account feedback from
Takashi is attached.

I'm going to look at hald now.

Monty

[-- Attachment #2: alsa-sysfs-fix-2.6.20-rc5-updated.txt --]
[-- Type: text/plain, Size: 1300 bytes --]

diff -uprN -X linux-2.6.20-rc5/Documentation/dontdiff linux-2.6.20-rc5/sound/core/sound.c linux-2.6.20-rc5-monty/sound/core/sound.c
--- linux-2.6.20-rc5/sound/core/sound.c	2007-01-12 13:54:26.000000000 -0500
+++ linux-2.6.20-rc5-monty/sound/core/sound.c	2007-01-25 12:31:28.000000000 -0500
@@ -264,8 +264,10 @@ int snd_register_device(int type, struct
 	}
 	snd_minors[minor] = preg;
 	if (card)
-		device = card->dev;
-	preg->dev = device_create(sound_class, device, MKDEV(major, minor),
+		device = card->parent;
+	preg->dev = device_create(sound_class,
+				  device,
+				  MKDEV(major, minor),
 				  "%s", name);
 	if (preg->dev)
 		dev_set_drvdata(preg->dev, private_data);
diff -uprN -X linux-2.6.20-rc5/Documentation/dontdiff linux-2.6.20-rc5/sound/sound_core.c linux-2.6.20-rc5-monty/sound/sound_core.c
--- linux-2.6.20-rc5/sound/sound_core.c	2007-01-12 13:54:26.000000000 -0500
+++ linux-2.6.20-rc5-monty/sound/sound_core.c	2007-01-25 12:04:30.000000000 -0500
@@ -170,7 +170,8 @@ static int sound_insert_unit(struct soun
 	else
 		sprintf(s->name, "sound/%s%d", name, r / SOUND_STEP);
 
-	device_create(sound_class, dev, MKDEV(SOUND_MAJOR, s->unit_minor),
+	device_create(sound_class, (dev?dev->parent:NULL), 
+		      MKDEV(SOUND_MAJOR, s->unit_minor),
 		      s->name+6);
 	return r;
 

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [Alsa-devel] [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-25 17:47                   ` Takashi Iwai
@ 2007-01-25 18:07                     ` xiphmont
  2007-01-25 18:23                       ` Takashi Iwai
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: xiphmont @ 2007-01-25 18:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Takashi Iwai
  Cc: Pierre Ossman, fedora-desktop-list, alsa-devel, jrb, Greg KH,
	linux-kernel, mclasen, Lennart Poettering, perex

On 1/25/07, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
> At Thu, 25 Jan 2007 12:30:44 -0500,
> xiphmont@xiph.org wrote:
> >
> > > I'm working on this now and will doublecheck just in case my test was
> > > flawed first time.
> >
> > Doublechecking indicates my initial test was wrong somehow; both
> > card->dev->parent and card->parent passed as arg 2 to the
> > device_create call in snd_register_device result in correct device
> > symlinks. Are these two actually semantically different?  I'm just
> > curious.
>
> If card->dev is created, they should be identical.
> But, again, card->dev should be NULL on the older systems.
>
> > The call to device_create in cound_core.c:sound_insert_unit also needs
> > to be modified in order for the device symlinks in the other unit
> > types to be correct.  Again, modifying the 'dev' argument to
> > '(dev?dev->parent:NULL)' appears to fix the problem.  Is that
> > correct/appropriate there?
>
> Your change breaks the expected heavior if CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED is
> enabled.  Then devices won't belong to card* objects any more...

FWIW, CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED is enabled on all my machines-- it's
exactly that behavior that is wrong in 2.6.20-rc5 and that I'm trying
to fix (and testing against here/now).

Having just checked a 2.6.18 machine, none of the device symlinks
point to card* objects; thay all point to /sys/devices/....

Monty

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [Alsa-devel] [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-25 18:07                     ` xiphmont
@ 2007-01-25 18:23                       ` Takashi Iwai
  2007-01-25 18:34                         ` xiphmont
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Takashi Iwai @ 2007-01-25 18:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: xiphmont
  Cc: Pierre Ossman, fedora-desktop-list, alsa-devel, jrb, Greg KH,
	linux-kernel, mclasen, Lennart Poettering, perex

At Thu, 25 Jan 2007 13:07:04 -0500,
xiphmont@xiph.org wrote:
> 
> On 1/25/07, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
> > At Thu, 25 Jan 2007 12:30:44 -0500,
> > xiphmont@xiph.org wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm working on this now and will doublecheck just in case my test was
> > > > flawed first time.
> > >
> > > Doublechecking indicates my initial test was wrong somehow; both
> > > card->dev->parent and card->parent passed as arg 2 to the
> > > device_create call in snd_register_device result in correct device
> > > symlinks. Are these two actually semantically different?  I'm just
> > > curious.
> >
> > If card->dev is created, they should be identical.
> > But, again, card->dev should be NULL on the older systems.
> >
> > > The call to device_create in cound_core.c:sound_insert_unit also needs
> > > to be modified in order for the device symlinks in the other unit
> > > types to be correct.  Again, modifying the 'dev' argument to
> > > '(dev?dev->parent:NULL)' appears to fix the problem.  Is that
> > > correct/appropriate there?
> >
> > Your change breaks the expected heavior if CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED is
> > enabled.  Then devices won't belong to card* objects any more...
> 
> FWIW, CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED is enabled on all my machines-- it's
> exactly that behavior that is wrong in 2.6.20-rc5 and that I'm trying
> to fix (and testing against here/now).

Err, replace /enabled/disabled/ in my reply above.

The problem with your patch is that it breaks the structure newly
introduced.  In the new tree, card* contains the whole belonging
devices, and each device points to the one in the card object.
Passing dev->parent there cuts the relation between the card object
and each device.

That's why my patch rules out setting card->dev with ifdef
CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED.  As fallback, it takes the parent device to
build the old style tree.

> Having just checked a 2.6.18 machine, none of the device symlinks
> point to card* objects; thay all point to /sys/devices/....

Yes, it's a new stuff.


Takashi

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [Alsa-devel] [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-25 18:23                       ` Takashi Iwai
@ 2007-01-25 18:34                         ` xiphmont
  2007-01-25 18:38                           ` Takashi Iwai
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: xiphmont @ 2007-01-25 18:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Takashi Iwai
  Cc: Pierre Ossman, fedora-desktop-list, alsa-devel, jrb, Greg KH,
	linux-kernel, mclasen, Lennart Poettering, perex

On 1/25/07, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:

> The problem with your patch is that it breaks the structure newly
> introduced.  In the new tree, card* contains the whole belonging
> devices, and each device points to the one in the card object.
> Passing dev->parent there cuts the relation between the card object
> and each device.
>
> That's why my patch rules out setting card->dev with ifdef
> CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED.  As fallback, it takes the parent device to
> build the old style tree.
>
> > Having just checked a 2.6.18 machine, none of the device symlinks
> > point to card* objects; thay all point to /sys/devices/....
>
> Yes, it's a new stuff.

[This does beg the question: Does the benefit of this complete
restructuring in a subminor release of an allegedly stable kernel
outweigh the fact that it breaks all audio for any user running a
gnome desktop?]

OK, so my patch should be passing card->parent or dev->parent only in
the case that CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED is set, and leaving the call the
way it was previously in the case CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED is not set.
Essentially, ifdef/else both cases?

Is this also going to have to be the case for every other class type
that converts from class_device_create to device_create?

Monty




>
>
> Takashi
>

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [Alsa-devel] [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-25 18:34                         ` xiphmont
@ 2007-01-25 18:38                           ` Takashi Iwai
  2007-01-25 18:51                             ` xiphmont
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Takashi Iwai @ 2007-01-25 18:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: xiphmont
  Cc: Pierre Ossman, fedora-desktop-list, alsa-devel, jrb, Greg KH,
	linux-kernel, mclasen, Lennart Poettering, perex

At Thu, 25 Jan 2007 13:34:19 -0500,
xiphmont@xiph.org wrote:
> 
> On 1/25/07, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
> 
> > The problem with your patch is that it breaks the structure newly
> > introduced.  In the new tree, card* contains the whole belonging
> > devices, and each device points to the one in the card object.
> > Passing dev->parent there cuts the relation between the card object
> > and each device.
> >
> > That's why my patch rules out setting card->dev with ifdef
> > CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED.  As fallback, it takes the parent device to
> > build the old style tree.
> >
> > > Having just checked a 2.6.18 machine, none of the device symlinks
> > > point to card* objects; thay all point to /sys/devices/....
> >
> > Yes, it's a new stuff.
> 
> [This does beg the question: Does the benefit of this complete
> restructuring in a subminor release of an allegedly stable kernel
> outweigh the fact that it breaks all audio for any user running a
> gnome desktop?]

Well, that's not me who introduced that ;)

> OK, so my patch should be passing card->parent or dev->parent only in
> the case that CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED is set, and leaving the call the
> way it was previously in the case CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED is not set.
> Essentially, ifdef/else both cases?

Also, avoid creating card* instance.  It makes no sense in that case.
(So... what's wrong with my patch?)

> Is this also going to have to be the case for every other class type
> that converts from class_device_create to device_create?

I don't think so.  The case of sound class is more complicated, a
combination of API change and a new tree.


Takashi

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [Alsa-devel] [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-25 18:38                           ` Takashi Iwai
@ 2007-01-25 18:51                             ` xiphmont
  2007-01-25 19:49                               ` Greg KH
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: xiphmont @ 2007-01-25 18:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Takashi Iwai
  Cc: Pierre Ossman, fedora-desktop-list, alsa-devel, jrb, Greg KH,
	linux-kernel, mclasen, Lennart Poettering, perex

On 1/25/07, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:

> > [This does beg the question: Does the benefit of this complete
> > restructuring in a subminor release of an allegedly stable kernel
> > outweigh the fact that it breaks all audio for any user running a
> > gnome desktop?]
>
> Well, that's not me who introduced that ;)

Consider it addressed to those responsible.

> Also, avoid creating card* instance.  It makes no sense in that case.

Well, the 'new' entries don't interfere with old-- and we inevitably
are going to end up with a situation where some software can only read
the 'new' entries and some software can only read the 'old', otherwise
why offer compatability at all?  I interpreted the
CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED option to mean 'also offer the deprecated
entries in addition to the new structure', otherwise the name should
be CONFIG_SYSFS_OLDSTYLE or some such to imply they're mutually
exclusive....

> (So... what's wrong with my patch?)

As it turns out, nothing (I made some error somewhere initially when
testing it).
Apologies if I wasn't clear.

(Well, it's incomplete like my original patch was in that it only
changed the device symlinks for controlX and pcmX; the other entries
still had device entries pointing at card*).

Monty

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [Alsa-devel] [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-25 18:51                             ` xiphmont
@ 2007-01-25 19:49                               ` Greg KH
  2007-01-25 20:40                                 ` xiphmont
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Greg KH @ 2007-01-25 19:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: xiphmont
  Cc: Takashi Iwai, Pierre Ossman, fedora-desktop-list, alsa-devel,
	jrb, linux-kernel, mclasen, Lennart Poettering, perex

On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 01:51:42PM -0500, xiphmont@xiph.org wrote:
> On 1/25/07, Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de> wrote:
> 
> >> [This does beg the question: Does the benefit of this complete
> >> restructuring in a subminor release of an allegedly stable kernel
> >> outweigh the fact that it breaks all audio for any user running a
> >> gnome desktop?]
> >
> >Well, that's not me who introduced that ;)
> 
> Consider it addressed to those responsible.

Which would be me. :)

And no, I don't want to break anything, hence that config option.  If
it's enabled, sysfs should look just like before.  But it looks like we
messed up somewhere and we need to fix it

> >Also, avoid creating card* instance.  It makes no sense in that case.
> 
> Well, the 'new' entries don't interfere with old-- and we inevitably
> are going to end up with a situation where some software can only read
> the 'new' entries and some software can only read the 'old', otherwise
> why offer compatability at all?  I interpreted the
> CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED option to mean 'also offer the deprecated
> entries in addition to the new structure', otherwise the name should
> be CONFIG_SYSFS_OLDSTYLE or some such to imply they're mutually
> exclusive....

The name of the config option doesn't really matter as much as the help
text of the option does.  Does reading that help out more?

Basically, new distros can disable that option if their userspace can
handle the new structure of sysfs with the symlinks.  Users of older
distros with newer kernels can enable the option and (hopefully) not
break anything.  So far, it's been working with this being the first
regression reported.

> >(So... what's wrong with my patch?)
> 
> As it turns out, nothing (I made some error somewhere initially when
> testing it).
> Apologies if I wasn't clear.
> 
> (Well, it's incomplete like my original patch was in that it only
> changed the device symlinks for controlX and pcmX; the other entries
> still had device entries pointing at card*).

So what does running with this patch make sysfs look like?

thanks,

greg k-h

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [Alsa-devel] [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-25 19:49                               ` Greg KH
@ 2007-01-25 20:40                                 ` xiphmont
  2007-01-25 21:59                                   ` Greg KH
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: xiphmont @ 2007-01-25 20:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Greg KH
  Cc: Takashi Iwai, Pierre Ossman, fedora-desktop-list, alsa-devel,
	jrb, linux-kernel, mclasen, Lennart Poettering, perex

> Basically, new distros can disable that option if their userspace can
> handle the new structure of sysfs with the symlinks.  Users of older
> distros with newer kernels can enable the option and (hopefully) not
> break anything.

I would like to register a general objection to a change of this size
'hoping to not break anything' in a stable release update (seeing as
how something did break), especially as how no one here who was
maintaining the userspace was apparently even aware it was coming.

> So far, it's been working with this being the first
> regression reported.

Had it worked properly, it still would have been a regression.  This
seems similar to the ALSA copout ("maintaining a kernel ABI is hard!
We require you have a userspace officially approved by us matching
your kernel, and that is your API.") except that in this case, the
userspace maintainence doesn't seem to be as tightly coupled (is hald
the only thing that broke?)

> > (Well, it's incomplete like my original patch was in that it only
> > changed the device symlinks for controlX and pcmX; the other entries
> > still had device entries pointing at card*).
>
> So what does running with this patch make sysfs look like?

A union of old and new, with old taking precedence over new when they
conflict.  That is, the [eg] pcmCXdXx entries look like old sysfs, but
the new entries for cardX etc are there too.  All device symlinks
point to /sys/device/pciXXXX:XX/XXXX:XX:XX.x entries as before.

Monty

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [Alsa-devel] [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-25 20:40                                 ` xiphmont
@ 2007-01-25 21:59                                   ` Greg KH
  2007-01-26 10:53                                     ` xiphmont
  2007-01-26 18:03                                     ` xiphmont
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Greg KH @ 2007-01-25 21:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: xiphmont
  Cc: Takashi Iwai, Pierre Ossman, fedora-desktop-list, alsa-devel,
	jrb, linux-kernel, mclasen, Lennart Poettering, perex

On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 03:40:06PM -0500, xiphmont@xiph.org wrote:
> >Basically, new distros can disable that option if their userspace can
> >handle the new structure of sysfs with the symlinks.  Users of older
> >distros with newer kernels can enable the option and (hopefully) not
> >break anything.
> 
> I would like to register a general objection to a change of this size
> 'hoping to not break anything' in a stable release update (seeing as
> how something did break), especially as how no one here who was
> maintaining the userspace was apparently even aware it was coming.

There is no such thing as a "stable release update" series anymore, you
should know that :)

It's incremental changes, over time, evolving into something new as you
look at the larger picture.

> >So far, it's been working with this being the first
> >regression reported.
> 
> Had it worked properly, it still would have been a regression.  This
> seems similar to the ALSA copout ("maintaining a kernel ABI is hard!
> We require you have a userspace officially approved by us matching
> your kernel, and that is your API.") except that in this case, the
> userspace maintainence doesn't seem to be as tightly coupled (is hald
> the only thing that broke?)

Well, as this HALD issue is the only thing that I have had reported, and
these patches have been in the -mm tree for quite some time, yes, I
think it is the only thing that has broken.

And yes, we have to have a way to evolve the api over time.  I thought
that given a kernel config option to allow the api to change, if your
userspace has also been updated, is the perfict way.  Then new distro
releases get to take advantage of the new stuff in the kernel, and we
don't break people who cling to Fedora Core 3 while wanting to run new
kernels (hi Andrew...)

In short, it's a bug, I messed up somehow.  And I'm trying to fix it
now, I don't think there's more that I can do, do you?

> >> (Well, it's incomplete like my original patch was in that it only
> >> changed the device symlinks for controlX and pcmX; the other entries
> >> still had device entries pointing at card*).
> >
> >So what does running with this patch make sysfs look like?
> 
> A union of old and new, with old taking precedence over new when they
> conflict.  That is, the [eg] pcmCXdXx entries look like old sysfs, but
> the new entries for cardX etc are there too.  All device symlinks
> point to /sys/device/pciXXXX:XX/XXXX:XX:XX.x entries as before.

Can you give me the 'tree /sys/class/sound' output?

Does it work properly with old versions of hald now?

Is there anything else left to fix?

thanks,

greg k-h

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [Alsa-devel] [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-25 21:59                                   ` Greg KH
@ 2007-01-26 10:53                                     ` xiphmont
  2007-01-26 11:40                                       ` Takashi Iwai
  2007-01-26 18:03                                     ` xiphmont
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: xiphmont @ 2007-01-26 10:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Greg KH
  Cc: Takashi Iwai, Pierre Ossman, fedora-desktop-list, alsa-devel,
	jrb, linux-kernel, mclasen, Lennart Poettering, perex

On 1/25/07, Greg KH <greg@kroah.com> wrote:

I want to do just a little more testing here (Takashi reminded me I
have a bit more testing of my own to do).

> Can you give me the 'tree /sys/class/sound' output?
Once I verify it's 'all good' (actually, I'm stalling; not in front of
the machine with the patches right now.

> Does it work properly with old versions of hald now?

Yes.  I still need to make doubly sure I didn't break the new sysfs tree though.

> Is there anything else left to fix?

Once that testing is done, no.  But don't trust the two patches I sent
yet, I'll resumbit the patch resulting from more thorough testing in a
few hours (much thanks to Takashi for giving me the parent device
feedback I was trolling for).

Monty

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [Alsa-devel] [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-26 10:53                                     ` xiphmont
@ 2007-01-26 11:40                                       ` Takashi Iwai
  2007-01-26 18:04                                         ` Greg KH
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Takashi Iwai @ 2007-01-26 11:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: xiphmont
  Cc: Greg KH, Pierre Ossman, fedora-desktop-list, alsa-devel, jrb,
	linux-kernel, mclasen, Lennart Poettering, perex

At Fri, 26 Jan 2007 05:53:36 -0500,
xiphmont@xiph.org wrote:
> 
> On 1/25/07, Greg KH <greg@kroah.com> wrote:
> 
> > Is there anything else left to fix?
> 
> Once that testing is done, no.  But don't trust the two patches I sent
> yet, I'll resumbit the patch resulting from more thorough testing in a
> few hours (much thanks to Takashi for giving me the parent device
> feedback I was trolling for).

After rechecking the current code regarding this sysfs change at last
night, I found out that it's more broken for some devices like
sound/arm/*.  They refer to card->dev to obtain the device for memory
allocation, etc, and passing card* object will screw them up.

The below is my current fix.  Hoepfully all evils got away now...  and
thanks for Monty for heading up this issue!


Takashi

====
[PATCH] ALSA: Fix sysfs breakage

The recent change for a new sysfs tree with card* object breaks the
/sys/class/sound tree if CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED is enabled.
The device in each entry doesn't point the correct device object:

  /sys/class/sound
  ...
  |-- pcmC0D0c
  |   |-- dev
  |   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card0
  |   |-- pcm_class
  |   |-- power
  |   |   `-- wakeup
  |   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
  |   `-- uevent

Also, this change breaks some drivers (like sound/arm/*) referring
card->dev directly to obtain the device object for memory handling.

This patch reverts the semantics of card->dev to the former version,
which points to a real device object.  The card* object is stored in a
new card->card_dev field, instead.  The device parent is chosen either
card->dev or card->card_dev according to CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED to
keep the tree compatibility.
Also, card* isn't created if CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED is enabled.  The
reason of card* object is a root of all beloing devices, and it makes
little sense if each sound device points to the real device object
directly.

Signed-off-by: Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de>
---
 include/sound/core.h   |   18 +++++++++++++++---
 sound/core/init.c      |   18 +++++++++++-------
 sound/core/sound.c     |    4 +---
 sound/core/sound_oss.c |    4 +---
 4 files changed, 28 insertions(+), 16 deletions(-)

diff --git a/include/sound/core.h b/include/sound/core.h
index a994bea..521f036 100644
--- a/include/sound/core.h
+++ b/include/sound/core.h
@@ -132,8 +132,10 @@ struct snd_card {
 	int shutdown;			/* this card is going down */
 	int free_on_last_close;		/* free in context of file_release */
 	wait_queue_head_t shutdown_sleep;
-	struct device *parent;
-	struct device *dev;
+	struct device *dev;		/* device assigned to this card */
+#ifndef CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED
+	struct device *card_dev;	/* cardX object for sysfs */
+#endif
 
 #ifdef CONFIG_PM
 	unsigned int power_state;	/* power state */
@@ -191,6 +193,16 @@ struct snd_minor {
 	struct device *dev;		/* device for sysfs */
 };
 
+/* return a device pointer linked to each sound device as a parent */
+static inline struct device *snd_card_get_device_link(struct snd_card *card)
+{
+#ifdef CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED
+	return card ? card->dev : NULL;
+#else
+	return card ? card->card_dev : NULL;
+#endif
+}
+
 /* sound.c */
 
 extern int snd_major;
@@ -257,7 +269,7 @@ int snd_card_file_add(struct snd_card *c
 int snd_card_file_remove(struct snd_card *card, struct file *file);
 
 #ifndef snd_card_set_dev
-#define snd_card_set_dev(card,devptr) ((card)->parent = (devptr))
+#define snd_card_set_dev(card,devptr) ((card)->dev = (devptr))
 #endif
 
 /* device.c */
diff --git a/sound/core/init.c b/sound/core/init.c
index 6152a75..a4cc6b1 100644
--- a/sound/core/init.c
+++ b/sound/core/init.c
@@ -361,8 +361,10 @@ static int snd_card_do_free(struct snd_c
 		snd_printk(KERN_WARNING "unable to free card info\n");
 		/* Not fatal error */
 	}
-	if (card->dev)
-		device_unregister(card->dev);
+#ifndef CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED
+	if (card->card_dev)
+		device_unregister(card->card_dev);
+#endif
 	kfree(card);
 	return 0;
 }
@@ -497,12 +499,14 @@ int snd_card_register(struct snd_card *c
 	int err;
 
 	snd_assert(card != NULL, return -EINVAL);
-	if (!card->dev) {
-		card->dev = device_create(sound_class, card->parent, 0,
-					  "card%i", card->number);
-		if (IS_ERR(card->dev))
-			card->dev = NULL;
+#ifndef CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED
+	if (!card->card_dev) {
+		card->card_dev = device_create(sound_class, card->dev, 0,
+					       "card%i", card->number);
+		if (IS_ERR(card->card_dev))
+			card->card_dev = NULL;
 	}
+#endif
 	if ((err = snd_device_register_all(card)) < 0)
 		return err;
 	mutex_lock(&snd_card_mutex);
diff --git a/sound/core/sound.c b/sound/core/sound.c
index 2827420..82a61c6 100644
--- a/sound/core/sound.c
+++ b/sound/core/sound.c
@@ -238,7 +238,7 @@ int snd_register_device(int type, struct
 {
 	int minor;
 	struct snd_minor *preg;
-	struct device *device = NULL;
+	struct device *device = snd_card_get_device_link(card);
 
 	snd_assert(name, return -EINVAL);
 	preg = kmalloc(sizeof *preg, GFP_KERNEL);
@@ -263,8 +263,6 @@ int snd_register_device(int type, struct
 		return minor;
 	}
 	snd_minors[minor] = preg;
-	if (card)
-		device = card->dev;
 	preg->dev = device_create(sound_class, device, MKDEV(major, minor),
 				  "%s", name);
 	if (preg->dev)
diff --git a/sound/core/sound_oss.c b/sound/core/sound_oss.c
index b2fc40a..4566df4 100644
--- a/sound/core/sound_oss.c
+++ b/sound/core/sound_oss.c
@@ -106,7 +106,7 @@ int snd_register_oss_device(int type, st
 	int cidx = SNDRV_MINOR_OSS_CARD(minor);
 	int track2 = -1;
 	int register1 = -1, register2 = -1;
-	struct device *carddev = NULL;
+	struct device *carddev = snd_card_get_device_link(card);
 
 	if (card && card->number >= 8)
 		return 0; /* ignore silently */
@@ -134,8 +134,6 @@ int snd_register_oss_device(int type, st
 		track2 = SNDRV_MINOR_OSS(cidx, SNDRV_MINOR_OSS_DMMIDI1);
 		break;
 	}
-	if (card)
-		carddev = card->dev;
 	register1 = register_sound_special_device(f_ops, minor, carddev);
 	if (register1 != minor)
 		goto __end;

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [Alsa-devel] [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-25 21:59                                   ` Greg KH
  2007-01-26 10:53                                     ` xiphmont
@ 2007-01-26 18:03                                     ` xiphmont
  2007-01-26 18:42                                       ` Greg KH
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: xiphmont @ 2007-01-26 18:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Greg KH
  Cc: Takashi Iwai, Pierre Ossman, fedora-desktop-list, alsa-devel,
	jrb, linux-kernel, mclasen, Lennart Poettering, perex

Before I get to the less focused rant below, I wanted to mention that
the HELP text for 'Create deprecated sysfs files' does not make it
clear that one is opting for old in exclusion of new.

On 1/25/07, Greg KH <greg@kroah.com> wrote:

> There is no such thing as a "stable release update" series anymore, you
> should know that :)

To the detriment of the users, yes.  Subminor release update and
*bam*, audio doesn't work and it takes a kernel hacker to figure out
why, and because of a small but inevitable error (error is inevitable
in change). If this was a Windows service pack or a MacOS subminor
update, it would be front page news in industry trade mags.  The fact
that it isn't is because it's Linux and we're frankly still the
retarded foster child adopted for tax purposes, at least as far as the
desktop goes.

I'm not saying change is bad, I'm saying this was a subtle, large
change and no one has explained the functional benefit beyond 'it's
cleaner' to outweigh 'many users want to strangle us'.

> Well, as this HALD issue is the only thing that I have had reported, and
> these patches have been in the -mm tree for quite some time, yes, I
> think it is the only thing that has broken.

Plenty of people spotted it, several bugs got filed, and the fact that
you're only hearing about it from me at least two months after
introduction is mildly worrisome.  (I am already worried that *I*
didn't hear about it till recently as I attempted to push out Pulse in
fc rawhide and found it magically no longer worked.  At all.)

If the hald developers were caught unprepared (so unprepared, in fact,
they've all ben inaccessable due to holiday + conference + vacation
for over a month and we can't push an update out), what is the average
user to do?  Not to mention the fact that it's just a little
embarrassing that sysfs was invented for 2.6 and the original version
has already been declared deprecated, still in 2.6.  There's change,
and then there's churn.

> In short, it's a bug, I messed up somehow.  And I'm trying to fix it
> now, I don't think there's more that I can do, do you?

No.  I'm not pushing back against you, I'm pushing back against the
budding 'stable APIs are for boring losers' culture.  There's a reason
I refuse to update my personal machines more often than once every
year or two-- they spend the next few weeks completely dysfunctional
each time.  To be fair, the kernel is usually far better than userland
[excepting ALSA, GRRRR], but let's not go pissing away that relative
lead :-)

Monty

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [Alsa-devel] [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-26 11:40                                       ` Takashi Iwai
@ 2007-01-26 18:04                                         ` Greg KH
  2007-01-26 18:25                                           ` Takashi Iwai
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Greg KH @ 2007-01-26 18:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Takashi Iwai
  Cc: xiphmont, Pierre Ossman, fedora-desktop-list, alsa-devel, jrb,
	linux-kernel, mclasen, Lennart Poettering, perex

On Fri, Jan 26, 2007 at 12:40:31PM +0100, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> At Fri, 26 Jan 2007 05:53:36 -0500,
> xiphmont@xiph.org wrote:
> > 
> > On 1/25/07, Greg KH <greg@kroah.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Is there anything else left to fix?
> > 
> > Once that testing is done, no.  But don't trust the two patches I sent
> > yet, I'll resumbit the patch resulting from more thorough testing in a
> > few hours (much thanks to Takashi for giving me the parent device
> > feedback I was trolling for).
> 
> After rechecking the current code regarding this sysfs change at last
> night, I found out that it's more broken for some devices like
> sound/arm/*.  They refer to card->dev to obtain the device for memory
> allocation, etc, and passing card* object will screw them up.
> 
> The below is my current fix.  Hoepfully all evils got away now...  and
> thanks for Monty for heading up this issue!
> 
> 
> Takashi
> 
> ====
> [PATCH] ALSA: Fix sysfs breakage
> 
> The recent change for a new sysfs tree with card* object breaks the
> /sys/class/sound tree if CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED is enabled.
> The device in each entry doesn't point the correct device object:
> 
>   /sys/class/sound
>   ...
>   |-- pcmC0D0c
>   |   |-- dev
>   |   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card0
>   |   |-- pcm_class
>   |   |-- power
>   |   |   `-- wakeup
>   |   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
>   |   `-- uevent
> 
> Also, this change breaks some drivers (like sound/arm/*) referring
> card->dev directly to obtain the device object for memory handling.
> 
> This patch reverts the semantics of card->dev to the former version,
> which points to a real device object.  The card* object is stored in a
> new card->card_dev field, instead.  The device parent is chosen either
> card->dev or card->card_dev according to CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED to
> keep the tree compatibility.
> Also, card* isn't created if CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED is enabled.  The
> reason of card* object is a root of all beloing devices, and it makes
> little sense if each sound device points to the real device object
> directly.
> 
> Signed-off-by: Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de>

Signed-off-by: Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@suse.de>

Thanks for working on tracking this down, sorry I forgot all about this
when doing this original conversion.

greg k-h

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [Alsa-devel] [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-26 18:04                                         ` Greg KH
@ 2007-01-26 18:25                                           ` Takashi Iwai
  2007-01-26 18:31                                             ` xiphmont
  2007-01-26 19:06                                             ` Greg KH
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Takashi Iwai @ 2007-01-26 18:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Greg KH
  Cc: xiphmont, Pierre Ossman, fedora-desktop-list, alsa-devel, jrb,
	linux-kernel, mclasen, Lennart Poettering, perex

At Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:04:57 -0800,
Greg KH wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Jan 26, 2007 at 12:40:31PM +0100, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > At Fri, 26 Jan 2007 05:53:36 -0500,
> > xiphmont@xiph.org wrote:
> > > 
> > > On 1/25/07, Greg KH <greg@kroah.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Is there anything else left to fix?
> > > 
> > > Once that testing is done, no.  But don't trust the two patches I sent
> > > yet, I'll resumbit the patch resulting from more thorough testing in a
> > > few hours (much thanks to Takashi for giving me the parent device
> > > feedback I was trolling for).
> > 
> > After rechecking the current code regarding this sysfs change at last
> > night, I found out that it's more broken for some devices like
> > sound/arm/*.  They refer to card->dev to obtain the device for memory
> > allocation, etc, and passing card* object will screw them up.
> > 
> > The below is my current fix.  Hoepfully all evils got away now...  and
> > thanks for Monty for heading up this issue!
> > 
> > 
> > Takashi
> > 
> > ====
> > [PATCH] ALSA: Fix sysfs breakage
> > 
> > The recent change for a new sysfs tree with card* object breaks the
> > /sys/class/sound tree if CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED is enabled.
> > The device in each entry doesn't point the correct device object:
> > 
> >   /sys/class/sound
> >   ...
> >   |-- pcmC0D0c
> >   |   |-- dev
> >   |   |-- device -> ../../../class/sound/card0
> >   |   |-- pcm_class
> >   |   |-- power
> >   |   |   `-- wakeup
> >   |   |-- subsystem -> ../../../class/sound
> >   |   `-- uevent
> > 
> > Also, this change breaks some drivers (like sound/arm/*) referring
> > card->dev directly to obtain the device object for memory handling.
> > 
> > This patch reverts the semantics of card->dev to the former version,
> > which points to a real device object.  The card* object is stored in a
> > new card->card_dev field, instead.  The device parent is chosen either
> > card->dev or card->card_dev according to CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED to
> > keep the tree compatibility.
> > Also, card* isn't created if CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED is enabled.  The
> > reason of card* object is a root of all beloing devices, and it makes
> > little sense if each sound device points to the real device object
> > directly.
> > 
> > Signed-off-by: Takashi Iwai <tiwai@suse.de>
> 
> Signed-off-by: Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@suse.de>
> 
> Thanks for working on tracking this down, sorry I forgot all about this
> when doing this original conversion.

Greg, feel free to pick it up to your tree for pushing.   Since this
patch conflicts with the development tree of ALSA mm branch, it'd be
even harder to push from ALSA tree, unfortuantely...

Of course, it'd be safer after confirming that the patch works indeed.
(My brief tests show good results, though.)


thanks,

Takashi

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [Alsa-devel] [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-26 18:25                                           ` Takashi Iwai
@ 2007-01-26 18:31                                             ` xiphmont
  2007-01-26 19:06                                             ` Greg KH
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: xiphmont @ 2007-01-26 18:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Takashi Iwai
  Cc: Greg KH, Pierre Ossman, fedora-desktop-list, alsa-devel, jrb,
	linux-kernel, mclasen, Lennart Poettering, perex

Yes, working on testing all cases here, takes a while, kernel builds
are hella long on this machine.

Monty

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [Alsa-devel] [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-26 18:03                                     ` xiphmont
@ 2007-01-26 18:42                                       ` Greg KH
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Greg KH @ 2007-01-26 18:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: xiphmont
  Cc: Takashi Iwai, Pierre Ossman, fedora-desktop-list, alsa-devel,
	jrb, linux-kernel, mclasen, Lennart Poettering, perex

On Fri, Jan 26, 2007 at 01:03:41PM -0500, xiphmont@xiph.org wrote:
> Before I get to the less focused rant below, I wanted to mention that
> the HELP text for 'Create deprecated sysfs files' does not make it
> clear that one is opting for old in exclusion of new.

Hm, can you think of some better wording that I might use for it?

> On 1/25/07, Greg KH <greg@kroah.com> wrote:
> 
> >There is no such thing as a "stable release update" series anymore, you
> >should know that :)
> 
> To the detriment of the users, yes.  Subminor release update and
> *bam*, audio doesn't work and it takes a kernel hacker to figure out
> why, and because of a small but inevitable error (error is inevitable
> in change). If this was a Windows service pack or a MacOS subminor
> update, it would be front page news in industry trade mags.  The fact
> that it isn't is because it's Linux and we're frankly still the
> retarded foster child adopted for tax purposes, at least as far as the
> desktop goes.

Again, the kernel will only have "subminor release updates" as per the
number, but not as per what we are really doing here in the kernel.

And it only looks like it affected a subset of the distros out there, my
boxes all worked just fine, even with that config option turned off,
otherwise I would have caught it very early in testing.

> I'm not saying change is bad, I'm saying this was a subtle, large
> change and no one has explained the functional benefit beyond 'it's
> cleaner' to outweigh 'many users want to strangle us'.

Well, users should never want to strangle us, that means we messed up.
And yes, this was a bug, sorry.

As for why we are doing this kind of change, it makes sense from a
hierarchical point of view (one device tree, symlinks into the tree for
information that you need instead of many multiple device trees all
scattered around.)  It also properly gives us the "card" abstraction for
ALSA devices, something people have been asking for quite some time (in
order to do persistent device names and other stuff).  And it fixes a
number of suspend/resume issues by allowing the class core that controls
the device to be notified of a suspend/resume before the device is, so
that it can do common work without all of the individual drivers having
to be changed.

> >Well, as this HALD issue is the only thing that I have had reported, and
> >these patches have been in the -mm tree for quite some time, yes, I
> >think it is the only thing that has broken.
> 
> Plenty of people spotted it, several bugs got filed, and the fact that
> you're only hearing about it from me at least two months after
> introduction is mildly worrisome.  (I am already worried that *I*
> didn't hear about it till recently as I attempted to push out Pulse in
> fc rawhide and found it magically no longer worked.  At all.)

Where were they filed?  Should I be looking somewhere else for kernel
bug reports?

> If the hald developers were caught unprepared (so unprepared, in fact,
> they've all ben inaccessable due to holiday + conference + vacation
> for over a month and we can't push an update out), what is the average
> user to do?

Some of the HAL developers knew about this a long time ago, as they were
one of the main people who did the kernel changes.  So I don't think
they were all unprepared :)

> Not to mention the fact that it's just a little embarrassing that
> sysfs was invented for 2.6 and the original version has already been
> declared deprecated, still in 2.6.  There's change, and then there's
> churn.

How would you go about making changes like the above?  I had two
choices:
	- fix all broken userspace programs for all old, unsupported
	  distros before making the change.  I actually started to do
	  this, but quickly got lost in a maze of old distro images...
	- add a kernel option that kept the old structure of sysfs, so
	  that people can slowly migrate over as their userspace
	  programs catch up and get updated in the future.

I implemented the latter, and so far, this is the only hic-up that has
been reported in the mainline kernel with it so far (there were bug
reports about stuff in the -mm tree, but that is what it is there for,
and they were quickly fixed.)

> >In short, it's a bug, I messed up somehow.  And I'm trying to fix it
> >now, I don't think there's more that I can do, do you?
> 
> No.  I'm not pushing back against you, I'm pushing back against the
> budding 'stable APIs are for boring losers' culture.

Note, I don't think that at all.  We are changing these userspace things
because we have learned and realize that after a few years of using this
model, things need to be tweaked to properly reflect the needs of the
real world.  It's almost impossible to get such a change right the first
time, and Linux relies on evolution of stuff in order to adapt properly.

Again, I'm providing a way to allow backward compatibility so that we do
not break anything that is currently out there.  So far no one has
objected to this :)

> There's a reason I refuse to update my personal machines more often
> than once every year or two-- they spend the next few weeks completely
> dysfunctional each time.  To be fair, the kernel is usually far better
> than userland [excepting ALSA, GRRRR], but let's not go pissing away
> that relative lead :-)

And there's a reason that I'm always using the latest experimental
userspace and use a distro that lets me do that :)

But I also have old machines that I don't update to ensure that things
still work properly.  Unfortunatly in this case, they were too old such
that the problem was never seen (pre-HAL-relying-gnome-distro).

thanks,

greg k-h

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [Alsa-devel] [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-26 18:25                                           ` Takashi Iwai
  2007-01-26 18:31                                             ` xiphmont
@ 2007-01-26 19:06                                             ` Greg KH
  2007-01-26 21:58                                               ` xiphmont
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Greg KH @ 2007-01-26 19:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Takashi Iwai
  Cc: xiphmont, Pierre Ossman, fedora-desktop-list, alsa-devel, jrb,
	linux-kernel, mclasen, Lennart Poettering, perex

On Fri, Jan 26, 2007 at 07:25:34PM +0100, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> Greg, feel free to pick it up to your tree for pushing.   Since this
> patch conflicts with the development tree of ALSA mm branch, it'd be
> even harder to push from ALSA tree, unfortuantely...
> 
> Of course, it'd be safer after confirming that the patch works indeed.
> (My brief tests show good results, though.)

Ok, I'll do it through my trees, but I'll wait for Monty to finish
building and testing.

/me hands Monty a copy of distcc and ccache :)

thanks,

greg k-h

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

* Re: [Alsa-devel] [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks
  2007-01-26 19:06                                             ` Greg KH
@ 2007-01-26 21:58                                               ` xiphmont
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: xiphmont @ 2007-01-26 21:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Greg KH
  Cc: Takashi Iwai, Pierre Ossman, fedora-desktop-list, alsa-devel,
	jrb, linux-kernel, mclasen, Lennart Poettering, perex

On 1/26/07, Greg KH <greg@kroah.com> wrote:

> Ok, I'll do it through my trees, but I'll wait for Monty to finish
> building and testing.
>
> /me hands Monty a copy of distcc and ccache :)

More like a disk that isn't strangely crippled.
(This kernel isn't getting anywhere near the studly machines :-)

The new-sysfs /sys/class/sound looks correct (I don't have any
userspace that can use it yet, simply compared it to pre-patch) and
the compatability (CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED) modes look and work 100%
properly here now.  Current hal works properly with
CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED and audio now.

Monty

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2007-01-26 21:58 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 30+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2007-01-25  1:50 [PATCH] alsa: correct nonsensical sysfs device symlinks Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
2007-01-25  4:26 ` Greg KH
2007-01-25 14:11   ` Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
2007-01-25 15:15     ` Pierre Ossman
2007-01-25 15:36       ` Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
2007-01-25 15:40         ` Pierre Ossman
2007-01-25 15:57           ` Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
2007-01-25 16:54             ` [Alsa-devel] " Takashi Iwai
2007-01-25 17:03               ` Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
2007-01-25 17:30                 ` xiphmont
2007-01-25 17:47                   ` Takashi Iwai
2007-01-25 18:07                     ` xiphmont
2007-01-25 18:23                       ` Takashi Iwai
2007-01-25 18:34                         ` xiphmont
2007-01-25 18:38                           ` Takashi Iwai
2007-01-25 18:51                             ` xiphmont
2007-01-25 19:49                               ` Greg KH
2007-01-25 20:40                                 ` xiphmont
2007-01-25 21:59                                   ` Greg KH
2007-01-26 10:53                                     ` xiphmont
2007-01-26 11:40                                       ` Takashi Iwai
2007-01-26 18:04                                         ` Greg KH
2007-01-26 18:25                                           ` Takashi Iwai
2007-01-26 18:31                                             ` xiphmont
2007-01-26 19:06                                             ` Greg KH
2007-01-26 21:58                                               ` xiphmont
2007-01-26 18:03                                     ` xiphmont
2007-01-26 18:42                                       ` Greg KH
2007-01-25 17:48                   ` Christopher "Monty" Montgomery
2007-01-25 11:27 ` Pierre Ossman

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