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From: Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@polymtl.ca>
To: john stultz <johnstul@us.ibm.com>
Cc: Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	Gregory Haskins <ghaskins@novell.com>,
	Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo <acme@ghostprotocols.net>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Tim Bird <tim.bird@am.sony.com>, Sam Ravnborg <sam@ravnborg.org>,
	"Frank Ch. Eigler" <fche@redhat.com>,
	Steven Rostedt <srostedt@redhat.com>,
	Paul Mackerras <paulus@samba.org>,
	Daniel Walker <dwalker@mvista.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 16/22 -v2] add get_monotonic_cycles
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:20:52 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20080117022052.GB2322@Krystal> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1200530004.6127.40.camel@localhost.localdomain>

* john stultz (johnstul@us.ibm.com) wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 2008-01-16 at 18:39 -0500, Mathieu Desnoyers wrote:
> > * john stultz (johnstul@us.ibm.com) wrote:
> > > 
> > > On Wed, 2008-01-16 at 14:36 -0800, john stultz wrote:
> > > > On Jan 16, 2008 6:56 AM, Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@polymtl.ca> wrote:
> > > > > If you really want an seqlock free algorithm (I _do_ want this for
> > > > > tracing!) :) maybe going in the RCU direction could help (I refer to my
> > > > > RCU-based 32-to-64 bits lockless timestamp counter extension, which
> > > > > could be turned into the clocksource updater).
> > > > 
> > > > Yea. After our earlier discussion and talking w/ Steven, I'm taking a
> > > > swing at this now.  The lock-free method still doesn't apply to the
> > > > update_wall_time function, but does work fine for the monotonic cycle
> > > > uses.  I'll send a patch for review as soon as I get things building.
> > > 
> > > So here's my first attempt at adding Mathieu's lock-free method to
> > > Steven's get_monotonic_cycles() interface. 
> > > 
> > > Completely un-tested, but it builds, so I figured I'd send it out for
> > > review.
> > > 
> > > I'm not super sure the update or the read doesn't need something
> > > additional to force a memory access, but as I didn't see anything 
> > > special in Mathieu's implementation, I'm going to guess this is ok.
> > > 
> > > Mathieu, Let me know if this isn't what you're suggesting.
> > > 
> > > Signed-off-by: John Stultz <johnstul@us.ibm.com>
> > > 
> > > Index: monotonic-cleanup/include/linux/clocksource.h
> > > ===================================================================
> > > --- monotonic-cleanup.orig/include/linux/clocksource.h	2008-01-16 12:22:04.000000000 -0800
> > > +++ monotonic-cleanup/include/linux/clocksource.h	2008-01-16 14:41:31.000000000 -0800
> > > @@ -87,9 +87,17 @@
> > >  	 * more than one cache line.
> > >  	 */
> > >  	struct {
> > > -		cycle_t cycle_last, cycle_accumulated, cycle_raw;
> > > -	} ____cacheline_aligned_in_smp;
> > 
> > Shouldn't the cycle_last and cycle_accumulated by in the array too ?
> 
> No, we're leaving cycle_last and cycle_accumulated alone. They're
> relating to the update_wall_time conversion of cycles to xtime. 
> 
> > > +		cycle_t cycle_last, cycle_accumulated;
> > >  
> > > +		/* base structure provides lock-free read
> > > +		 * access to a virtualized 64bit counter
> > > +		 * Uses RCU-like update.
> > > +		 */
> > > +		struct {
> > 
> > We had cycle_raw before, why do we need the following two ?
> >
> > > +			cycle_t cycle_base_last, cycle_base;
> > 
> > I'm not quite sure why you need both cycle_base_last and cycle_base...
> 
> So on my first shot at this, I tried to layer the concepts. Using the
> lock-free method to create a abstracted 64bit counter, as provided by
> get_monotonic_cycles(). Then I tried to use that abstraction directly in
> the update_wall_time() code, reading the abstracted 64bit counter and
> using it to update time.
> 
> However, then we start keeping cycle_last in 64bit cycles, rather then
> an actual counter read. This then caused changes to be needed in the
> arch vsyscall implementations, and that started to get ugly, as we had
> to also re-implement the abstracted 64bit counter w/ the lock free
> method as well. 
> 
> So I just backed off and tried to make it simple: We have two sets of
> data that counts cycles from the clocksource. One for timekeeping and
> one for get_monotoinc_cycles(). It is a little redundant, but I don't
> think you can escape that (the layering method above also has
> redundancy, but its just hidden until you implement the vsyscall gtod
> methods).
> 
> 
> > I think I'll need a bit of an explanation of what you are trying to
> > achieve here to see what to expect from the clock source. Are you trying
> > to deal with non-synchronized TSCs across CPUs in a way that will
> > generate a monotonic (sometimes stalling) clock ?
> 
> No no no.. I'm not touching the non-synced TSC issue. I'm just trying to
> take clocksource counters, which may be of different bit-widths (ACPI PM
> is 24bits, for instance), and create lock-free method to translate that
> into a virtual 64bit wide counter (using an accumulation bucket,
> basically).
> 
> > What I am trying to say is : I know you are trying to make a virtual
> > clock source where time cannot go backward, but what are your
> > assumptions about the "real" clock source ?
> 
> The assumptions of the real clocksource is the same we keep in the
> timekeeping core. It counts forward, at a constant rate and only wraps
> after the mask value has been reached. 
> 
> > Is the intent to deal with an HPET suddenly reset to 0 or something
> > like this ?
> 
> Well, dealing with clocksources wrapping short of 64bits.
> 

Ah ok, then the problem is clearer :) The main difference between the
approach I use and yours is that, let's say your clocksource starts a
while after the system started running, then it will start the
accumulator at 0. You therefore have to keep track of the total time
accumulated and the current lower order bits of the last accumulation
upon clocksource_accumulate().

I used a different method to do this. I just need to keep the 64 bits
"synthetic counter" value at each update. The main difference between my
synthetic counter and your accumumated cycles is that my LSBs will
always be exactly the same as the real clocksource itself. In your case,
you always have to read two 64 bits fields and perform an addition and a
substraction, while I only need to do comparisons and bit operations.
Only when I detect a wrap around of the LSB (in the read side) do I have
to add 1 to the higher order bits of the value I return.

So by using my algorithm, you could replace the cycle_base_last and
cycle_base by a single "synthetic_tsc" variable.

So the periodical calls to clocksource_accumulate() would only be there
to update the synthetic TSC to get the MSBs right and to make sure the
following reads would be able to detect LSB overflows.



> > Basically, I wonder why you have to calculate the current cycle count
> > from the previous update_wall_time event. Is is because you need to be
> > consistent when a clocksource change occurs ?
> 
> Actually, we try to do it from the last clocksource_accumulate() call
> (which is called from update_wall_time).
> 
> 
> > > +		} base[2];
> > > +		int base_num;
> > > +	} ____cacheline_aligned_in_smp;
> > >  	u64 xtime_nsec;
> > >  	s64 error;
> > >  
> > > @@ -175,19 +183,21 @@
> > >  }
> > >  
> > >  /**
> > > - * clocksource_get_cycles: - Access the clocksource's accumulated cycle value
> > > + * clocksource_get_basecycles: - get the clocksource's accumulated cycle value
> > >   * @cs:		pointer to clocksource being read
> > >   * @now:	current cycle value
> > >   *
> > >   * Uses the clocksource to return the current cycle_t value.
> > >   * NOTE!!!: This is different from clocksource_read, because it
> > > - * returns the accumulated cycle value! Must hold xtime lock!
> > > + * returns a 64bit wide accumulated value.
> > >   */
> > >  static inline cycle_t
> > > -clocksource_get_cycles(struct clocksource *cs, cycle_t now)
> > > +clocksource_get_basecycles(struct clocksource *cs, cycle_t now)
> > >  {
> > > -	cycle_t offset = (now - cs->cycle_last) & cs->mask;
> > > -	offset += cs->cycle_accumulated;
> > 
> > I would disable preemption in clocksource_get_basecycles. We would not
> > want to be scheduled out while we hold a pointer to the old array
> > element.
> 
> Ok. This is the part I wasn't so sure about. But yes, that sounds
> reasonable. 
> 
> 
> > > +	int num = cs->base_num;
> > 
> > Since you deal with base_num in a shared manner (not per cpu), you will
> > need a smp_read_barrier_depend() here after the cs->base_num read.
> 
> Ah, thanks. I'll add that in.
> 
> > You should think about reading the cs->base_num first, and _after_ that
> > read the real clocksource. Here, the clocksource value is passed as
> > parameter. It means that the read clocksource may have been read in the

should read the previous line "real clocksource" : (might help
understanding)

> > parameter. It means that the reaL clocksource may have been read in the

> > previous RCU window.
> 
> Hmm. Ok, still need to wrap my head around that one, but I think it
> makes sense.
> 
> 
> > > +	cycle_t offset = (now - cs->base[num].cycle_base_last);
> > > +	offset &= cs->mask;
> > > +	offset += cs->base[num].cycle_base;
> > >  	return offset;
> > >  }
> > >  
> > > @@ -197,14 +207,25 @@
> > >   * @now:	current cycle value
> > >   *
> > >   * Used to avoids clocksource hardware overflow by periodically
> > > - * accumulating the current cycle delta. Must hold xtime write lock!
> > > + * accumulating the current cycle delta. Uses RCU-like update, but
> > > + * ***still requires the xtime_lock is held for writing!***
> > >   */
> > >  static inline void clocksource_accumulate(struct clocksource *cs, cycle_t now)
> > >  {
> > 
> > Why do we still require xtime_lock here ? Can you tell exactly which
> > contexts this function will be called from (periodical timer interrupt?)
> > I guess it is called from one and only one CPU periodically.
> 
> Well, the main reason we need the xtime_lock, is because the xtime_lock
> still protects the cycle_last and cycle_accumulated values (which are
> not lock-free). This is part of the redundancy issue above. We're
> updating similar structures, that store different data from the same
> source. One of the two can be handled lock-free, the other cannot.
> 
> In addition however, doing the update under the lock makes sure we don't
> do the update in parallel (serializes writers, basically) if
> clocksource_accumulate is called on different cpus (it shouldn't happen
> right now, but in the past it has been possible).
> 

Note that if two writers have to be serialized, then you do not respect
the required delay between updates that are necessary to make sure a
reader won't see its data overwritten while it still holds reference to
its old data.

> 
> > > -	cycle_t offset = (now - cs->cycle_last) & cs->mask;
> > > +	/* First update the monotonic base portion.
> > > +	 * The dual array update method allows for lock-free reading.
> > > +	 */
> > > +	int num = !cs->base_num;
> > > +	cycle_t offset = (now - cs->base[!num].cycle_base_last);
> > 
> > !0 is not necessarily 1. This is why I use cpu_synth->index ? 0 : 1 in
> > my code. The two previous lines seems buggy. (I did the same mistake in
> > my first implementation) ;)
> 
> Heh. My first thought to this was just disbelief("WHAAAH? NOOOO!"). But
> Steven made clear the logical issue on irc. Thanks for pointing it out.
> I've been using that assumption (as well as the !! trick) for so long it
> will be a hard habit to break. :)
> 
> I'll add in Steven's method to the code.
> 

To be continued in the other thread I guess..

> > > +	offset &= cs->mask;
> > > +	cs->base[num].cycle_base = cs->base[!num].cycle_base + offset;
> > 
> > Here too.
> > 
> > > +	cs->base[num].cycle_base_last = now;
> > 
> > Since you deal with shared data (in my algo, I use per-cpu data), you
> > have to add a wmb() before the base_num value update. Only then will you
> > ensure that other CPUs will see consistent values.
> 
> Ok. Thanks I was worried about that as well.
> 

I think a smp_wmb() would be enough though.

> 
> Thanks so much for the review! I'll go through and make the update
> changes you suggested. Do let me know if my explanations above to your
> questions make sense.
> 

We would have to see which method (synthetic tsc vs accumulated cycles)
makes the more sense/is the fastest/etc...

Mathieu

> thanks
> -john
> 
> 

-- 
Mathieu Desnoyers
Computer Engineering Ph.D. Student, Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
OpenPGP key fingerprint: 8CD5 52C3 8E3C 4140 715F  BA06 3F25 A8FE 3BAE 9A68

  reply	other threads:[~2008-01-17  2:21 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 100+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-01-09 23:29 [RFC PATCH 00/22 -v2] mcount and latency tracing utility -v2 Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 01/22 -v2] Add basic support for gcc profiler instrumentation Steven Rostedt
2008-01-10 18:19   ` Jan Kiszka
2008-01-10 19:54     ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-10 23:02     ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-10 18:28   ` Sam Ravnborg
2008-01-10 19:10     ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 02/22 -v2] Annotate core code that should not be traced Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 03/22 -v2] x86_64: notrace annotations Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 04/22 -v2] add notrace annotations to vsyscall Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 05/22 -v2] add notrace annotations for NMI routines Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 06/22 -v2] mcount based trace in the form of a header file library Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 07/22 -v2] tracer add debugfs interface Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 08/22 -v2] mcount tracer output file Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 09/22 -v2] mcount tracer show task comm and pid Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 10/22 -v2] Add a symbol only trace output Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 11/22 -v2] Reset the tracer when started Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 12/22 -v2] separate out the percpu date into a percpu struct Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 13/22 -v2] handle accurate time keeping over long delays Steven Rostedt
2008-01-10  0:00   ` john stultz
2008-01-10  0:09     ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-10 19:54     ` Tony Luck
2008-01-10 20:15       ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-10 20:41         ` john stultz
2008-01-10 20:29       ` john stultz
2008-01-10 20:42         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-10 21:25           ` john stultz
2008-01-10 22:00             ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-10 22:40               ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-10 22:51               ` john stultz
2008-01-10 23:05                 ` john stultz
2008-01-10 21:33         ` [RFC PATCH 13/22 -v2] handle accurate time keeping over longdelays Luck, Tony
2008-01-10  0:19   ` [RFC PATCH 13/22 -v2] handle accurate time keeping over long delays john stultz
2008-01-10  0:25     ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 14/22 -v2] time keeping add cycle_raw for actual incrementation Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 15/22 -v2] initialize the clock source to jiffies clock Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 16/22 -v2] add get_monotonic_cycles Steven Rostedt
2008-01-10  3:28   ` Daniel Walker
2008-01-15 21:46   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-15 22:01     ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-15 22:03       ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-15 22:08       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-16  1:38         ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-16  3:17           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-16 13:17             ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-16 14:56               ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-16 15:06                 ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-16 15:28                   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-16 15:58                     ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-16 17:00                       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-16 17:49                         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-16 19:43                         ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-16 20:17                           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-16 20:45                             ` Tim Bird
2008-01-16 20:49                             ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-17 20:08                             ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-17 20:37                               ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2008-01-17 21:03                                 ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-18 22:26                                   ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-18 22:49                                     ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-18 23:19                                       ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-19  3:36                                         ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2008-01-19  3:55                                           ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-19  4:23                                             ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2008-01-19 15:29                                               ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-19  3:32                                       ` Frank Ch. Eigler
2008-01-16 18:01                       ` Tim Bird
2008-01-16 22:36                 ` john stultz
2008-01-16 22:51                   ` john stultz
2008-01-16 23:33                     ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-17  2:28                       ` john stultz
2008-01-17  2:40                         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-17  2:50                           ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-17  3:02                             ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-17  3:21                             ` Paul Mackerras
2008-01-17  3:39                               ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-17  4:22                                 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-17  4:25                                 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-17  4:14                               ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-17 15:22                                 ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-17 17:46                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-01-17  2:51                           ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-16 23:39                     ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-16 23:50                       ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-17  0:36                         ` Steven Rostedt
2008-01-17  0:33                       ` john stultz
2008-01-17  2:20                         ` Mathieu Desnoyers [this message]
2008-01-17  1:03                       ` Linus Torvalds
2008-01-17  1:35                         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-17  2:20                       ` john stultz
2008-01-17  2:35                         ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 17/22 -v2] Add timestamps to tracer Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 18/22 -v2] Sort trace by timestamp Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 19/22 -v2] speed up the output of the tracer Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 20/22 -v2] Add latency_trace format tor tracer Steven Rostedt
2008-01-10  3:41   ` Daniel Walker
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 21/22 -v2] Split out specific tracing functions Steven Rostedt
2008-01-09 23:29 ` [RFC PATCH 22/22 -v2] Trace irq disabled critical timings Steven Rostedt
2008-01-10  3:58   ` Daniel Walker
2008-01-10 14:45     ` Steven Rostedt

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