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From: Nick Piggin <npiggin@suse.de>
To: Jack Steiner <steiner@sgi.com>
Cc: Andrea Arcangeli <andrea@qumranet.com>,
	akpm@linux-foundation.org, Robin Holt <holt@sgi.com>,
	Avi Kivity <avi@qumranet.com>, Izik Eidus <izike@qumranet.com>,
	kvm-devel@lists.sourceforge.net,
	Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>,
	general@lists.openfabrics.org,
	Steve Wise <swise@opengridcomputing.com>,
	Roland Dreier <rdreier@cisco.com>,
	Kanoj Sarcar <kanojsarcar@yahoo.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	daniel.blueman@quadrics.com, Christoph Lameter <clameter@sgi.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] mmu notifiers #v8
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 17:59:10 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20080303165910.GA23998@wotan.suse.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20080303151859.GA19374@sgi.com>

On Mon, Mar 03, 2008 at 09:18:59AM -0600, Jack Steiner wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 03, 2008 at 02:10:17PM +0100, Nick Piggin wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 03, 2008 at 01:51:53PM +0100, Andrea Arcangeli wrote:
> > > On Mon, Mar 03, 2008 at 04:29:34AM +0100, Nick Piggin wrote:
> > > > to something I prefer. Others may not, but I'll post them for debate
> > > > anyway.
> > > 
> > > Sure, thanks!
> > > 
> > > > > I didn't drop invalidate_page, because invalidate_range_begin/end
> > > > > would be slower for usages like KVM/GRU (we don't need a begin/end
> > > > > there because where invalidate_page is called, the VM holds a
> > > > > reference on the page). do_wp_page should also use invalidate_page
> > > > > since it can free the page after dropping the PT lock without losing
> > > > > any performance (that's not true for the places where invalidate_range
> > > > > is called).
> > > > 
> > > > I'm still not completely happy with this. I had a very quick look
> > > > at the GRU driver, but I don't see why it can't be implemented
> > > > more like the regular TLB model, and have TLB insertions depend on
> > > > the linux pte, and do invalidates _after_ restricting permissions
> > > > to the pte.
> > > > 
> > > > Ie. I'd still like to get rid of invalidate_range_begin, and get
> > > > rid of invalidate calls from places where permissions are relaxed.
> > > 
> > > _begin exists because by the time _end is called, the VM already
> > > dropped the reference on the page. This way we can do a single
> > > invalidate no matter how large the range is. I don't see ways to
> > > remove _begin while still invoking _end a single time for the whole
> > > range.
> > 
> > Is this just a GRU problem? Can't we just require them to take a ref
> > on the page (IIRC Jack said GRU could be changed to more like a TLB
> > model).
> 
> Maintaining a long-term reference on a page is a problem. The GRU does not
> currently maintain tables to track the pages for which dropins have been done.
> 
> The GRU has a large internal TLB and is designed to reference up to 8PB of
> memory. The size of the tables to track this many referenced pages would be
> a problem (at best).

Is it any worse a problem than the pagetables of the processes which have
their virtual memory exported to GRU? AFAIKS, no; it is on the same
magnitude of difficulty. So you could do it without introducing any
fundamental problem (memory usage might be increased by some constant
factor, but I think we can cope with that in order to make the core patch
really nice and simple).

It is going to be really easy to add more weird and wonderful notifiers
later that deviate from our standard TLB model. It would be much harder to
remove them. So I really want to see everyone conform to this model first.
Numbers and comparisons can be brought out afterwards if people want to
attempt to make such changes.

  reply	other threads:[~2008-03-03 16:59 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 115+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-02-19  8:43 [patch] my mmu notifiers Nick Piggin
2008-02-19  8:44 ` [patch] my mmu notifier sample driver Nick Piggin
2008-02-19 11:59 ` [patch] my mmu notifiers Robin Holt
2008-02-19 13:58 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-02-19 14:27   ` Jack Steiner
2008-02-19 23:04     ` Nick Piggin
2008-02-20  0:52       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-02-20  2:46         ` Robin Holt
2008-02-27 22:50     ` Christoph Lameter
2008-02-19 22:59   ` Nick Piggin
2008-02-20  0:46     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-02-27 22:55     ` Christoph Lameter
2008-02-19 23:11   ` Nick Piggin
2008-02-19 23:40     ` Jack Steiner
2008-02-21  4:42       ` Nick Piggin
2008-02-22 16:31         ` Jack Steiner
2008-02-20  1:09     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-02-20 10:39       ` [PATCH] mmu notifiers #v6 Andrea Arcangeli
2008-02-20 10:45         ` [PATCH] KVM swapping (+ seqlock fix) with " Andrea Arcangeli
2008-02-27 22:06           ` [PATCH] KVM swapping with mmu notifiers #v7 Andrea Arcangeli
2008-02-28  8:42             ` izik eidus
2008-02-20 11:33         ` [PATCH] mmu notifiers #v6 Robin Holt
2008-02-20 12:03           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-02-20 12:24             ` Robin Holt
2008-02-20 12:32               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-02-20 13:15                 ` Robin Holt
2008-02-21  5:02             ` Nick Piggin
2008-02-20 14:41         ` Robin Holt
2008-02-20 15:34           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-02-20 21:03         ` Jack Steiner
2008-02-21  4:54         ` Nick Piggin
2008-02-21 14:40           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-02-21 16:10             ` Jack Steiner
2008-02-27 19:26               ` [PATCH] mmu notifiers #v7 Andrea Arcangeli
2008-02-27 20:04                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2008-02-27 23:06                 ` Christoph Lameter
2008-02-27 23:43                   ` [kvm-devel] " Andrea Arcangeli
2008-02-28  0:08                     ` Christoph Lameter
2008-02-28  0:21                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-02-28  0:24                         ` Christoph Lameter
2008-02-28 19:48                 ` Christoph Lameter
2008-02-28 21:52                   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-02-28 22:00                     ` Christoph Lameter
2008-02-28 23:17                     ` Jack Steiner
2008-02-29  0:24                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-02-29  1:13                         ` Christoph Lameter
2008-02-28 23:05                 ` Christoph Lameter
2008-02-29  0:40                   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-02-29  0:56                     ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-29  1:03                     ` Christoph Lameter
2008-02-29 13:09                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-02-29 19:46                         ` Christoph Lameter
2008-03-02 15:54                 ` [PATCH] mmu notifiers #v8 Andrea Arcangeli
2008-03-02 16:03                   ` [PATCH] mmu notifiers #v8 + xpmem Andrea Arcangeli
2008-03-02 16:23                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2008-03-03  3:29                   ` [PATCH] mmu notifiers #v8 Nick Piggin
2008-03-03 12:51                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-03-03 13:10                       ` Nick Piggin
2008-03-03 13:24                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-03-03 15:18                         ` Jack Steiner
2008-03-03 16:59                           ` Nick Piggin [this message]
2008-03-03 18:06                             ` Jack Steiner
2008-03-03 18:09                               ` Avi Kivity
2008-03-03 18:23                                 ` Jack Steiner
2008-03-03 18:45                               ` Nick Piggin
2008-03-03 19:15                                 ` Jack Steiner
2008-03-04 10:35                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2008-03-04 14:44                                     ` Jack Steiner
2008-03-03 19:02                             ` Christoph Lameter
2008-03-03 19:01                     ` Christoph Lameter
2008-03-03 21:15                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-03-05  0:37                       ` Nick Piggin
2008-03-05 18:48                         ` Christoph Lameter
2008-03-06  2:59                           ` Nick Piggin
2008-03-03  3:33                   ` Nick Piggin
2008-03-03 19:03                     ` Christoph Lameter
2008-03-03  3:34                   ` Nick Piggin
2008-03-03 19:04                     ` Christoph Lameter
2008-03-03  3:39                   ` Nick Piggin
2008-03-03 21:37                   ` [PATCH] mmu notifiers #v9 Andrea Arcangeli
2008-03-03 22:05                     ` [PATCH] KVM swapping with " Andrea Arcangeli
2008-03-04  0:44                       ` izik eidus
2008-03-04  7:31                         ` [RFC] Notifier for Externally Mapped Memory (EMM) Christoph Lameter
2008-03-04  7:34                           ` [Early draft] Conversion of i_mmap_lock to semaphore Christoph Lameter
2008-03-04 13:30                           ` [RFC] Notifier for Externally Mapped Memory (EMM) Andrea Arcangeli
2008-03-04 19:00                             ` Christoph Lameter
2008-03-04 22:20                               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-03-04 22:35                                 ` Christoph Lameter
2008-03-04 22:42                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2008-03-04 23:14                                     ` Christoph Lameter
2008-03-04 23:25                                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2008-03-04 23:30                                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2008-03-05  5:09                                     ` Avi Kivity
2008-03-05  9:47                                       ` Robin Holt
2008-03-05  9:53                                         ` Avi Kivity
2008-03-05 10:02                                         ` [kvm-devel] " Dor Laor
2008-03-07 15:17                                   ` [PATCH] 2/4 move all invalidate_page outside of PT lock (#v9 was 1/4) Andrea Arcangeli
2008-03-07 15:23                                     ` [PATCH] 3/4 combine RCU with seqlock to allow mmu notifier methods to sleep " Andrea Arcangeli
2008-03-07 15:52                                       ` [PATCH] 4/4 i_mmap_lock spinlock2rwsem " Andrea Arcangeli
2008-03-07 20:03                                         ` Christoph Lameter
2008-03-19 21:27                                         ` Christoph Lameter
2008-03-07 16:52                                       ` [PATCH] 3/4 combine RCU with seqlock to allow mmu notifier methods to sleep " Peter Zijlstra
2008-03-07 17:50                                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-03-07 18:01                                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2008-03-07 18:45                                             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-03-07 19:47                                               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-03-07 20:15                                                 ` Christoph Lameter
2008-03-07 20:12                                               ` Christoph Lameter
2008-03-07 20:10                                           ` Christoph Lameter
2008-03-07 20:00                                       ` Christoph Lameter
2008-03-07 19:54                                     ` [PATCH] 2/4 move all invalidate_page outside of PT lock " Christoph Lameter
2008-03-04 13:21                         ` [PATCH] KVM swapping with mmu notifiers #v9 Andrea Arcangeli
2008-02-21  4:47       ` [patch] my mmu notifiers Nick Piggin
2008-02-20  2:49     ` Robin Holt
2008-02-27 22:56     ` Christoph Lameter

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