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From: Aaron Lu <aaron.lu@linux.alibaba.com>
To: Tim Chen <tim.c.chen@linux.intel.com>
Cc: "Vineeth Remanan Pillai" <vpillai@digitalocean.com>,
	"Julien Desfossez" <jdesfossez@digitalocean.com>,
	"Dario Faggioli" <dfaggioli@suse.com>,
	"Li, Aubrey" <aubrey.li@linux.intel.com>,
	"Aubrey Li" <aubrey.intel@gmail.com>,
	"Subhra Mazumdar" <subhra.mazumdar@oracle.com>,
	"Nishanth Aravamudan" <naravamudan@digitalocean.com>,
	"Peter Zijlstra" <peterz@infradead.org>,
	"Ingo Molnar" <mingo@kernel.org>,
	"Thomas Gleixner" <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	"Paul Turner" <pjt@google.com>,
	"Linus Torvalds" <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	"Linux List Kernel Mailing" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Frédéric Weisbecker" <fweisbec@gmail.com>,
	"Kees Cook" <keescook@chromium.org>,
	"Greg Kerr" <kerrnel@google.com>, "Phil Auld" <pauld@redhat.com>,
	"Valentin Schneider" <valentin.schneider@arm.com>,
	"Mel Gorman" <mgorman@techsingularity.net>,
	"Pawan Gupta" <pawan.kumar.gupta@linux.intel.com>,
	"Paolo Bonzini" <pbonzini@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v3 00/16] Core scheduling v3
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 22:15:40 +0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20190913141540.GB81644@aaronlu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <8373e386-cb99-8f79-a78e-5e79dc962b81@linux.intel.com>

On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 10:29:13AM -0700, Tim Chen wrote:
> On 9/12/19 5:35 AM, Aaron Lu wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 12:47:34PM -0400, Vineeth Remanan Pillai wrote:
> 
> > 
> > core wide vruntime makes sense when there are multiple tasks of
> > different cgroups queued on the same core. e.g. when there are two
> > tasks of cgroupA and one task of cgroupB are queued on the same core,
> > assume cgroupA's one task is on one hyperthread and its other task is on
> > the other hyperthread with cgroupB's task. With my current
> > implementation or Tim's, cgroupA will get more time than cgroupB. 
> 
> I think that's expected because cgroup A has two tasks and cgroup B
> has one task, so cgroup A should get twice the cpu time than cgroup B
> to maintain fairness.

Like you said below, the ideal run time for each cgroup should depend on
their individual weight. The fact cgroupA has two tasks doesn't mean it
has twice the weight. Both cgroup can have the same cpu.share settings
and then, the more task a cgroup has, the less weight it can get for the
cgroup's per-cpu se.

I now realized one thing that's different in your idle_allowance
implementation and my core_vruntime implementation. In your
implementation, the idle_allowance is absolute time while vruntime can
be adjusted by the se's weight, that's probably one area your
implementation can make things less fair then mine.

> > If we
> > maintain core wide vruntime for cgroupA and cgroupB, we should be able
> > to maintain fairness between cgroups on this core. 
> 
> I don't think the right thing to do is to give cgroupA and cgroupB equal
> time on a core.  The time they get should still depend on their 
> load weight.

Agree.

> The better thing to do is to move one task from cgroupA to another core,
> that has only one cgroupA task so it can be paired up
> with that lonely cgroupA task.  This will eliminate the forced idle time
> for cgropuA both on current core and also the migrated core.

I'm not sure if this is always possible.

Say on a 16cores/32threads machine, there are 3 cgroups, each has 16 cpu
intensive tasks, will it be possible to make things perfectly balanced?

Don't get me wrong, I think this kind of load balancing is good and
needed, but I'm not sure if we can always make things perfectly
balanced. And if not, do we care those few cores where cgroup tasks are
not balanced and then, do we need to implement the core_wide cgoup
fairness functionality or we don't care since those cores are supposed
to be few and isn't a big deal?

> > Tim propose to solve
> > this problem by doing some kind of load balancing if I'm not mistaken, I
> > haven't taken a look at this yet.
> > 
> 
> My new patchset is trying to solve a different problem.  It is
> not trying to maintain fairness between cgroup on a core, but tries to
> even out the load of a cgroup between threads, and even out general
> load between cores. This will minimize the forced idle time.

Understood.

> 
> The fairness between cgroup relies still on
> proper vruntime accounting and proper comparison of vruntime between
> threads.  So for now, I am still using Aaron's patchset for this purpose
> as it has better fairness property than my other proposed patchsets
> for fairness purpose.
> 
> With just Aaron's current patchset we may have a lot of forced idle time
> due to the uneven distribution of tasks of different cgroup among the
> threads and cores, even though scheduling fairness is maintained.
> My new patches try to remove those forced idle time by moving the
> tasks around, to minimize cgroup unevenness between sibling threads
> and general load unevenness between the CPUs.

Yes I think this is definitely a good thing to do.

  reply	other threads:[~2019-09-13 14:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 161+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-05-29 20:36 Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-05-29 20:36 ` [RFC PATCH v3 01/16] stop_machine: Fix stop_cpus_in_progress ordering Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-08-08 10:54   ` [tip:sched/core] " tip-bot for Peter Zijlstra
2019-08-26 16:19   ` [RFC PATCH v3 01/16] " mark gross
2019-08-26 16:59     ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-05-29 20:36 ` [RFC PATCH v3 02/16] sched: Fix kerneldoc comment for ia64_set_curr_task Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-08-08 10:55   ` [tip:sched/core] " tip-bot for Peter Zijlstra
2019-08-26 16:20   ` [RFC PATCH v3 02/16] " mark gross
2019-05-29 20:36 ` [RFC PATCH v3 03/16] sched: Wrap rq::lock access Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-05-29 20:36 ` [RFC PATCH v3 04/16] sched/{rt,deadline}: Fix set_next_task vs pick_next_task Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-08-08 10:55   ` [tip:sched/core] " tip-bot for Peter Zijlstra
2019-05-29 20:36 ` [RFC PATCH v3 05/16] sched: Add task_struct pointer to sched_class::set_curr_task Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-08-08 10:57   ` [tip:sched/core] " tip-bot for Peter Zijlstra
2019-05-29 20:36 ` [RFC PATCH v3 06/16] sched/fair: Export newidle_balance() Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-08-08 10:58   ` [tip:sched/core] sched/fair: Expose newidle_balance() tip-bot for Peter Zijlstra
2019-05-29 20:36 ` [RFC PATCH v3 07/16] sched: Allow put_prev_task() to drop rq->lock Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-08-08 10:58   ` [tip:sched/core] " tip-bot for Peter Zijlstra
2019-08-26 16:51   ` [RFC PATCH v3 07/16] " mark gross
2019-05-29 20:36 ` [RFC PATCH v3 08/16] sched: Rework pick_next_task() slow-path Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-08-08 10:59   ` [tip:sched/core] " tip-bot for Peter Zijlstra
2019-08-26 17:01   ` [RFC PATCH v3 08/16] " mark gross
2019-05-29 20:36 ` [RFC PATCH v3 09/16] sched: Introduce sched_class::pick_task() Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-08-26 17:14   ` mark gross
2019-05-29 20:36 ` [RFC PATCH v3 10/16] sched: Core-wide rq->lock Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-05-31 11:08   ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-05-31 15:23     ` Vineeth Pillai
2019-05-29 20:36 ` [RFC PATCH v3 11/16] sched: Basic tracking of matching tasks Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-08-26 20:59   ` mark gross
2019-05-29 20:36 ` [RFC PATCH v3 12/16] sched: A quick and dirty cgroup tagging interface Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-05-29 20:36 ` [RFC PATCH v3 13/16] sched: Add core wide task selection and scheduling Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-06-07 23:36   ` Pawan Gupta
2019-05-29 20:36 ` [RFC PATCH v3 14/16] sched/fair: Add a few assertions Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-05-29 20:36 ` [RFC PATCH v3 15/16] sched: Trivial forced-newidle balancer Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-05-29 20:36 ` [RFC PATCH v3 16/16] sched: Debug bits Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-05-29 21:02   ` Peter Oskolkov
2019-05-30 14:04 ` [RFC PATCH v3 00/16] Core scheduling v3 Aubrey Li
2019-05-30 14:17   ` Julien Desfossez
2019-05-31  4:55     ` Aubrey Li
2019-05-31  3:01   ` Aaron Lu
2019-05-31  5:12     ` Aubrey Li
2019-05-31  6:09       ` Aaron Lu
2019-05-31  6:53         ` Aubrey Li
2019-05-31  7:44           ` Aaron Lu
2019-05-31  8:26             ` Aubrey Li
2019-05-31 21:08     ` Julien Desfossez
2019-06-06 15:26       ` Julien Desfossez
2019-06-12  1:52         ` Li, Aubrey
2019-06-12 16:06           ` Julien Desfossez
2019-06-12 16:33         ` Julien Desfossez
2019-06-13  0:03           ` Subhra Mazumdar
2019-06-13  3:22             ` Julien Desfossez
2019-06-17  2:51               ` Aubrey Li
2019-06-19 18:33                 ` Julien Desfossez
2019-07-18 10:07                   ` Aaron Lu
2019-07-18 23:27                     ` Tim Chen
2019-07-19  5:52                       ` Aaron Lu
2019-07-19 11:48                         ` Aubrey Li
2019-07-19 18:33                         ` Tim Chen
2019-07-22 10:26                     ` Aubrey Li
2019-07-22 10:43                       ` Aaron Lu
2019-07-23  2:52                         ` Aubrey Li
2019-07-25 14:30                       ` Aaron Lu
2019-07-25 14:31                         ` [RFC PATCH 1/3] wrapper for cfs_rq->min_vruntime Aaron Lu
2019-07-25 14:32                         ` [PATCH 2/3] core vruntime comparison Aaron Lu
2019-08-06 14:17                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-07-25 14:33                         ` [PATCH 3/3] temp hack to make tick based schedule happen Aaron Lu
2019-07-25 21:42                         ` [RFC PATCH v3 00/16] Core scheduling v3 Li, Aubrey
2019-07-26 15:21                         ` Julien Desfossez
2019-07-26 21:29                           ` Tim Chen
2019-07-31  2:42                           ` Li, Aubrey
2019-08-02 15:37                             ` Julien Desfossez
2019-08-05 15:55                               ` Tim Chen
2019-08-06  3:24                                 ` Aaron Lu
2019-08-06  6:56                                   ` Aubrey Li
2019-08-06  7:04                                     ` Aaron Lu
2019-08-06 12:24                                       ` Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-08-06 13:49                                         ` Aaron Lu
2019-08-06 16:14                                           ` Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-08-06 14:16                                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-08-06 15:53                                           ` Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-08-06 17:03                                   ` Tim Chen
2019-08-06 17:12                                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-08-06 21:19                                       ` Tim Chen
2019-08-08  6:47                                         ` Aaron Lu
2019-08-08 17:27                                           ` Tim Chen
2019-08-08 21:42                                             ` Tim Chen
2019-08-10 14:15                                               ` Aaron Lu
2019-08-12 15:38                                                 ` Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-08-13  2:24                                                   ` Aaron Lu
2019-08-08 12:55                                 ` Aaron Lu
2019-08-08 16:39                                   ` Tim Chen
2019-08-10 14:18                                     ` Aaron Lu
2019-08-05 20:09                               ` Phil Auld
2019-08-06 13:54                                 ` Aaron Lu
2019-08-06 14:17                                   ` Phil Auld
2019-08-06 14:41                                     ` Aaron Lu
2019-08-06 14:55                                       ` Phil Auld
2019-08-07  8:58                               ` Dario Faggioli
2019-08-07 17:10                                 ` Tim Chen
2019-08-15 16:09                                   ` Dario Faggioli
2019-08-16  2:33                                     ` Aaron Lu
2019-09-05  1:44                                   ` Julien Desfossez
2019-09-06 22:17                                     ` Tim Chen
2019-09-18 21:27                                     ` Tim Chen
2019-09-06 18:30                                   ` Tim Chen
2019-09-11 14:02                                     ` Aaron Lu
2019-09-11 16:19                                       ` Tim Chen
2019-09-11 16:47                                         ` Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-09-12 12:35                                           ` Aaron Lu
2019-09-12 17:29                                             ` Tim Chen
2019-09-13 14:15                                               ` Aaron Lu [this message]
2019-09-13 17:13                                                 ` Tim Chen
2019-09-30 11:53                                             ` Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-10-02 20:48                                               ` Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-10-10 13:54                                                 ` Aaron Lu
2019-10-10 14:29                                                   ` Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-10-11  7:33                                                     ` Aaron Lu
2019-10-11 11:32                                                       ` Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-10-11 12:01                                                         ` Aaron Lu
2019-10-11 12:10                                                           ` Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-10-12  3:55                                                             ` Aaron Lu
2019-10-13 12:44                                                               ` Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-10-14  9:57                                                                 ` Aaron Lu
2019-10-21 12:30                                                                   ` Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-09-12 12:04                                         ` Aaron Lu
2019-09-12 17:05                                           ` Tim Chen
2019-09-13 13:57                                             ` Aaron Lu
2019-09-12 23:12                                           ` Aubrey Li
2019-09-15 14:14                                             ` Aaron Lu
2019-09-18  1:33                                               ` Aubrey Li
2019-09-18 20:40                                                 ` Tim Chen
2019-09-18 22:16                                                   ` Aubrey Li
2019-09-30 14:36                                                     ` Vineeth Remanan Pillai
2019-10-29 20:40                                                   ` Julien Desfossez
2019-11-01 21:42                                                     ` Tim Chen
2019-10-29  9:11                                               ` Dario Faggioli
2019-10-29  9:15                                                 ` Dario Faggioli
2019-10-29  9:16                                                 ` Dario Faggioli
2019-10-29  9:17                                                 ` Dario Faggioli
2019-10-29  9:18                                                 ` Dario Faggioli
2019-10-29  9:18                                                 ` Dario Faggioli
2019-10-29  9:19                                                 ` Dario Faggioli
2019-10-29  9:20                                                 ` Dario Faggioli
2019-10-29 20:34                                                   ` Julien Desfossez
2019-11-15 16:30                                                     ` Dario Faggioli
2019-09-25  2:40                                     ` Aubrey Li
2019-09-25 17:24                                       ` Tim Chen
2019-09-25 22:07                                         ` Aubrey Li
2019-09-30 15:22                                     ` Julien Desfossez
2019-08-27 21:14 ` Matthew Garrett
2019-08-27 21:50   ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-08-28 15:30     ` Phil Auld
2019-08-28 16:01       ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-08-28 16:37         ` Tim Chen
2019-08-29 14:30         ` Phil Auld
2019-08-29 14:38           ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-09-10 14:27             ` Julien Desfossez
2019-09-18 21:12               ` Tim Chen
2019-08-28 15:59     ` Tim Chen
2019-08-28 16:16       ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-08-27 23:24   ` Aubrey Li

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