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From: "H.J. Lu" <hjl.tools@gmail.com>
To: Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>
Cc: Yu-cheng Yu <yu-cheng.yu@intel.com>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, Linux-MM <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	linux-arch <linux-arch@vger.kernel.org>, X86 ML <x86@kernel.org>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
	"Shanbhogue, Vedvyas" <vedvyas.shanbhogue@intel.com>,
	"Ravi V. Shankar" <ravi.v.shankar@intel.com>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>, Oleg Nesterov <oleg@redhat.com>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
	mike.kravetz@oracle.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH 06/10] x86/cet: Add arch_prctl functions for shadow stack
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2018 05:24:22 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAMe9rOpLDzWk=xdZqN1QJVnP-c_dti5Fy=C_GqbeQpS_a=0ewA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALCETrWhMmqGWKx-yw55YKHMJwGyLZio5f8Pskh8X69zfQMy7A@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 9:38 PM, Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 9:10 PM H.J. Lu <hjl.tools@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 4:01 PM, Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org> wrote:
>> > On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 3:02 PM H.J. Lu <hjl.tools@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 2:01 PM, Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org> wrote:
>> >> > On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 1:33 PM Yu-cheng Yu <yu-cheng.yu@intel.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Thu, 2018-06-07 at 11:48 -0700, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
>> >> >> > On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 7:41 AM Yu-cheng Yu <yu-cheng.yu@intel.com> wrote:
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > The following operations are provided.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > ARCH_CET_STATUS:
>> >> >> > >         return the current CET status
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > ARCH_CET_DISABLE:
>> >> >> > >         disable CET features
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > ARCH_CET_LOCK:
>> >> >> > >         lock out CET features
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > ARCH_CET_EXEC:
>> >> >> > >         set CET features for exec()
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > ARCH_CET_ALLOC_SHSTK:
>> >> >> > >         allocate a new shadow stack
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > ARCH_CET_PUSH_SHSTK:
>> >> >> > >         put a return address on shadow stack
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > ARCH_CET_ALLOC_SHSTK and ARCH_CET_PUSH_SHSTK are intended only for
>> >> >> > > the implementation of GLIBC ucontext related APIs.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Please document exactly what these all do and why.  I don't understand
>> >> >> > what purpose ARCH_CET_LOCK and ARCH_CET_EXEC serve.  CET is opt in for
>> >> >> > each ELF program, so I think there should be no need for a magic
>> >> >> > override.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> CET is initially enabled if the loader has CET capability.  Then the
>> >> >> loader decides if the application can run with CET.  If the application
>> >> >> cannot run with CET (e.g. a dependent library does not have CET), then
>> >> >> the loader turns off CET before passing to the application.  When the
>> >> >> loader is done, it locks out CET and the feature cannot be turned off
>> >> >> anymore until the next exec() call.
>> >> >
>> >> > Why is the lockout necessary?  If user code enables CET and tries to
>> >> > run code that doesn't support CET, it will crash.  I don't see why we
>> >> > need special code in the kernel to prevent a user program from calling
>> >> > arch_prctl() and crashing itself.  There are already plenty of ways to
>> >> > do that :)
>> >>
>> >> On CET enabled machine, not all programs nor shared libraries are
>> >> CET enabled.  But since ld.so is CET enabled, all programs start
>> >> as CET enabled.  ld.so will disable CET if a program or any of its shared
>> >> libraries aren't CET enabled.  ld.so will lock up CET once it is done CET
>> >> checking so that CET can't no longer be disabled afterwards.
>> >
>> > Yeah, I got that.  No one has explained *why*.
>>
>> It is to prevent malicious code from disabling CET.
>>
>
> By the time malicious code issue its own syscalls, you've already lost
> the battle.  I could probably be convinced that a lock-CET-on feature
> that applies *only* to the calling thread and is not inherited by
> clone() is a decent idea, but I'd want to see someone who understands
> the state of the art in exploit design justify it.  You're also going
> to need to figure out how to make CRIU work if you allow locking CET
> on.
>
> A priori, I think we should just not provide a lock mechanism.

We need a door for CET.  But it is a very bad idea to leave it open
all the time.  I don't know much about CRIU,  If it is Checkpoint/Restore
In Userspace.  Can you free any application with AVX512 on AVX512
machine and restore it on non-AVX512 machine?

>> > (Also, shouldn't the vDSO itself be marked as supporting CET?)
>>
>> No. vDSO is loaded by kernel.  vDSO in CET kernel is CET
>> compatible.
>>
>
> I think the vDSO should do its best to act like a real DSO.  That
> means that, if the vDSO supports CET, it should advertise support for
> CET using the Linux ABI.  Since you're going to require GCC 8 anyway,
> this should be a single line of code in the Makefile.

Sure.  A couple lines.

-- 
H.J.

  reply	other threads:[~2018-06-08 12:24 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 98+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-06-07 14:37 [PATCH 00/10] Control Flow Enforcement - Part (3) Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-07 14:37 ` [PATCH 01/10] x86/cet: User-mode shadow stack support Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-07 16:37   ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-07 17:46     ` Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-07 17:55       ` Dave Hansen
2018-06-07 18:23       ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-12 11:56   ` Balbir Singh
2018-06-12 15:03     ` Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-07 14:37 ` [PATCH 02/10] x86/cet: Introduce WRUSS instruction Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-07 16:40   ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-07 16:51     ` Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-07 18:41     ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-06-07 20:31       ` Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-11  8:17     ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-06-11 15:02       ` Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-14  1:30   ` Balbir Singh
2018-06-14 14:43     ` Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-07 14:38 ` [PATCH 03/10] x86/cet: Signal handling for shadow stack Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-07 18:30   ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-07 18:58     ` Florian Weimer
2018-06-07 19:51       ` Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-07 20:07     ` Cyrill Gorcunov
2018-06-07 20:57       ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-08 12:07         ` Cyrill Gorcunov
2018-06-07 20:12     ` Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-07 20:17       ` Dave Hansen
2018-06-07 14:38 ` [PATCH 04/10] x86/cet: Handle thread " Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-07 18:21   ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-07 19:47     ` Florian Weimer
2018-06-07 20:53       ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-08 14:53         ` Florian Weimer
2018-06-08 15:01           ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-08 15:50             ` Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-07 14:38 ` [PATCH 05/10] x86/cet: ELF header parsing of Control Flow Enforcement Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-07 18:38   ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-07 20:40     ` Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-07 14:38 ` [PATCH 06/10] x86/cet: Add arch_prctl functions for shadow stack Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-07 18:48   ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-07 20:30     ` Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-07 21:01       ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-07 22:02         ` H.J. Lu
2018-06-07 23:01           ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-08  4:09             ` H.J. Lu
2018-06-08  4:38               ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-08 12:24                 ` H.J. Lu [this message]
2018-06-08 14:57                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-08 15:52                     ` Cyrill Gorcunov
2018-06-08  4:22           ` H.J. Lu
2018-06-08  4:35             ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-08 12:17               ` H.J. Lu
2018-06-12 10:03           ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-06-12 11:43             ` H.J. Lu
2018-06-12 16:01               ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-12 16:05                 ` H.J. Lu
2018-06-12 16:34                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-12 16:51                     ` H.J. Lu
2018-06-12 18:59                       ` Thomas Gleixner
2018-06-12 19:34                         ` H.J. Lu
2018-06-18 22:03                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-19  0:52                             ` Kees Cook
2018-06-19  6:40                               ` Florian Weimer
2018-06-19 14:50                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-19 16:44                                 ` Kees Cook
2018-06-19 16:59                                   ` Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-19 17:07                                     ` Kees Cook
2018-06-19 17:20                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-19 20:12                                         ` Kees Cook
2018-06-19 20:47                                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-19 22:38                                             ` Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-20  0:50                                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-21 23:07                                                 ` Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-07 14:38 ` [PATCH 07/10] mm: Prevent mprotect from changing " Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-07 14:38 ` [PATCH 08/10] mm: Prevent mremap of " Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-07 18:48   ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-07 20:18     ` Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-07 14:38 ` [PATCH 09/10] mm: Prevent madvise from changing " Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-07 20:54   ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-07 21:09   ` Nadav Amit
2018-06-07 21:18     ` Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-07 14:38 ` [PATCH 10/10] mm: Prevent munmap and remap_file_pages of " Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-07 18:50   ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-07 20:15     ` Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-12 10:56 ` [PATCH 00/10] Control Flow Enforcement - Part (3) Balbir Singh
2018-06-12 15:03   ` Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-12 16:00     ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-12 16:21       ` Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-12 16:31         ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-12 17:24           ` Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-12 20:15             ` Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-14  1:07     ` Balbir Singh
2018-06-14 14:56       ` Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-17  3:16         ` Balbir Singh
2018-06-18 21:44           ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-19  8:52             ` Balbir Singh
2018-06-26  2:46 ` Jann Horn
2018-06-26 14:56   ` Yu-cheng Yu
2018-06-26  5:26 ` Andy Lutomirski
2018-06-26 14:56   ` Yu-cheng Yu

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