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From: Bryan Henderson <hbryan@us.ibm.com>
To: "Daniel Phillips" <phillips@google.com>
Cc: "Al Boldi" <a1426z@gawab.com>,
	"Alan Cox" <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	"David Chinner" <dgc@sgi.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, "Pavel Machek" <pavel@ucw.cz>,
	"Rik van Riel" <riel@redhat.com>, "Theodore Tso" <tytso@mit.edu>,
	"Valerie Henson" <val.henson@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Patch] document ext3 requirements (was Re: [RFD] Incremental fsck)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:06:50 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <OFDB679999.9793D1C7-ON882573D2.00646D05-882573D2.0068FF85@us.ibm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4d47a5d10801151724m418e18efp9a0dd936e9a3584c@mail.gmail.com>

>The "disk motor as a generator" tale may not be purely folklore.  When
>an IDE drive is not in writeback mode, something special needs to done
>to ensure the last write to media is not a scribble.

No it doesn't.  The last write _is_ a scribble.  Systems that make atomic 
updates to disk drives use a shadow update mechanism and write the master 
sector twice.  If the power fails in the middle of writing one, it will 
almost certainly be unreadable due to a CRC failure, and the other one 
will have either the old or new master block contents.

And I think there's a problem with drives that, upon sensing the 
unreadable sector, assign an alternate even though the sector is fine, and 
you eventually run out of spares.


Incidentally, while this primitive behavior applies to IDE (ATA et al) 
drives, that isn't the only thing people put filesystem on.  Many 
important filesystems go on higher level storage subsystems that contain 
IDE drives and cache memory and batteries.  A device like this _does_ make 
sure that all data that it says has been written is actually retrievable 
even if there's a subsequent power outage, even while giving the 
performance of writeback caching.

--
Bryan Henderson                     IBM Almaden Research Center
San Jose CA                         Filesystems


  parent reply	other threads:[~2008-01-16 19:07 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 53+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-01-08 21:22 [RFD] Incremental fsck Al Boldi
2008-01-08 21:31 ` Alan
2008-01-09  9:16   ` Andreas Dilger
2008-01-12 23:55     ` Daniel Phillips
2008-01-08 21:41 ` Rik van Riel
2008-01-09  4:40   ` Al Boldi
2008-01-09  7:45     ` Valerie Henson
2008-01-09 11:52       ` Al Boldi
2008-01-09 14:44         ` Rik van Riel
2008-01-10 13:26           ` Al Boldi
2008-01-12 14:51         ` Theodore Tso
2008-01-13 11:05           ` Al Boldi
2008-01-13 17:19           ` Pavel Machek
2008-01-13 17:41             ` Alan Cox
2008-01-15 20:16               ` [Patch] document ext3 requirements (was Re: [RFD] Incremental fsck) Pavel Machek
2008-01-15 21:43                 ` David Chinner
2008-01-15 23:07                   ` Pavel Machek
2008-01-15 23:44                     ` Daniel Phillips
2008-01-16  0:15                       ` Alan Cox
2008-01-16  1:24                         ` Daniel Phillips
2008-01-16  1:36                           ` Chris Mason
2008-01-17 20:54                             ` Pavel Machek
2008-01-16 19:06                           ` Bryan Henderson [this message]
2008-01-16 20:05                             ` Alan Cox
2008-01-17  2:02                             ` Daniel Phillips
2008-01-17 21:37                               ` Bryan Henderson
2008-01-17 22:45                               ` Theodore Tso
2008-01-17 22:58                                 ` Alan Cox
2008-01-17 23:18                                 ` Ric Wheeler
2008-01-18  0:31                                   ` Bryan Henderson
2008-01-18 14:23                                     ` Theodore Tso
2008-01-18 15:16                                       ` [Patch] document ext3 requirements (was Re: [RFD] Incrementalfsck) linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2008-01-19 14:53                                         ` Pavel Machek
2008-01-18 15:26                                       ` [Patch] document ext3 requirements (was Re: [RFD] Incremental fsck) Ric Wheeler
2008-01-18 20:34                                         ` Jeff Garzik
2008-01-18 22:35                                           ` Bryan Henderson
2008-01-18 15:08                                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-01-18 17:43                                       ` Bryan Henderson
2008-01-16 21:28                         ` Eric Sandeen
2008-01-16 11:51                       ` Pavel Machek
2008-01-16 12:20                         ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2008-01-19 14:51                           ` Pavel Machek
2008-01-16 16:38                   ` Christoph Hellwig
2008-01-16  1:44                 ` Daniel Phillips
2008-01-16  3:05                   ` Rik van Riel
2008-01-17  7:38                     ` Andreas Dilger
2008-01-16 11:49                   ` Pavel Machek
2008-01-16 20:52                     ` Valerie Henson
2008-01-17 12:29                   ` Szabolcs Szakacsits
2008-01-17 22:51                     ` Daniel Phillips
2008-01-15  1:04             ` [RFD] Incremental fsck Ric Wheeler
2008-01-14  0:22           ` Daniel Phillips
2008-01-09  8:04     ` Valdis.Kletnieks

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