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From: Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@linux01.gwdg.de>
To: Satyam Sharma <satyam.sharma@gmail.com>
Cc: Tilman Schmidt <tilman@imap.cc>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Stefan Richter <stefanr@s5r6.in-berlin.de>
Subject: Re: Linux 2.6.22-rc1
Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 10:16:26 +0200 (MEST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0705151009400.9570@yvahk01.tjqt.qr> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <a781481a0705141934u6b369dd5ob1715f14890af914@mail.gmail.com>


On May 15 2007 08:04, Satyam Sharma wrote:
> On 5/15/07, Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@linux01.gwdg.de> wrote:
>> that can be switched on or off.
>> It is for those people that start with an arbitrary .config and
>> work their way through menuconfig to disable all the parts they
>> do not want. So, point no. 1:
>> 
>> * Disabling this menu disables all the fluff inside it,
>> without needing to enter the menu and disable each
>> option one by one (as was the case previously)
>
> This kind of promise was really nice, and why I liked Jan's
> menuconfig patches a lot.
>
> But if:
>
> On 5/15/07, Tilman Schmidt <tilman@imap.cc> wrote:
>> Another essential piece of information. I seem to remember other
>> menus which, when disabled, kept the selection status of the
>> options inside and just hid them from view.
>
> is true, then are we really gaining much from these configmenu's?

If you transform a menu with hidden options (which do NOT "depend on"
the menu - they can't even) into a menuconfig (continuing not to
depend on the menuconfig), the presentation fucks up (especially in
ncurses-menuconfig). That is a good hint something should be taken
more seriously.

So, for menus with hidden options I had a number of options how to
go about them:

 - move the hidden options before the menuconfig or after, so
   the presentation does not bork;

 - leave the menu as-is because there's just so many hidden
   options and a menuconfig entry is detrimental

> [unrelated]
> I wish these new constructs were called "configmenu" and
> _not_ "menuconfig". It causes confusion with the "menuconfig"
> master Makefile rule which has nothing to do with these new
> "configmenu"s.
> [/unrelated]

Indeed.

>> Then of course, one can also turn these menuconfig on (apparently!)
>> to be able to descend into them and select some drivers they like.
>> Point no. 2:
>> 
>> * Since Jens Axboe's stance ["default y idiocy"] is to have
>> these menus disabled by default, people should most likely
>> enable them first before they will be able to enter them.
>
> I do agree that anything non-essential (even if it's just a presentation
> menu that doesn't affect builds) must be default n.
>
>> (I would have wanted them to be always 'y' - it does not affect
>> the build, just opens all menus by default)
>
> IMHO, the real problem with "default y" menuconfig's, is that they
> cause unpleasant surprises to those folks that use the text-based
> "make oldconfig". They get confronted with choices that they never
> bothered about (or even knew existed) previously, and have no
> idea how to answer them -- same problem faced by Tilman, when
> he used oldconfig.
>


> I think what happened here is that Jan really only considered the
> "make menuconfig" users with these new constructs (which makes life
> really simple for them), but "oldconfig" users were unfortunately in for
> unpleasant surprises ...

I can't tell, since I'd just say yes if it asks "Ethernet (10 GbE)?" -
either I have such an adapter or I don't.



So what do we need?

 * 'configmenu' option (with 'endconfigmenu') that works the same as
   'menu' and 'endmenu' (so we can have hidden options), but at the
   same time make the ---> and options inside it disappear when it is
   not selected. Currently, no other type seems to satisfy this.


	Jan
-- 

  parent reply	other threads:[~2007-05-15  8:18 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 79+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-05-13  3:20 Linus Torvalds
2007-05-13  9:20 ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-05-17  6:55   ` Len Brown
2007-05-13  9:29 ` Linux 2.6.22-rc1, 'nother randconfig Jan Engelhardt
2007-05-13  9:47 ` [PATCH] driver core: fix warning of temporarily unused multithreaded probing function (was: Re: Linux 2.6.22-rc1) Borislav Petkov
2007-05-14  8:06   ` Cornelia Huck
2007-05-13 12:44 ` Linux 2.6.22-rc1 Alessandro Suardi
2007-05-13 12:44 ` Indan Zupancic
2007-05-13 17:10 ` Antonino Ingargiola
2007-05-13 17:53   ` Linus Torvalds
2007-05-13 18:50     ` Antonino Ingargiola
2007-05-14  6:10       ` Jean Delvare
2007-05-14  8:34         ` Antonino Ingargiola
2007-05-14 12:14           ` Jean Delvare
2007-05-14 13:28             ` Antonino Ingargiola
2007-05-14 15:21               ` Jean Delvare
2007-05-14 16:04                 ` Antonino Ingargiola
2007-05-14 16:23                   ` Michal Piotrowski
2007-05-14 18:08                   ` Jean Delvare
2007-05-14 18:25                     ` Antonino Ingargiola
2007-05-14 16:30                 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-05-14 18:24                   ` Jean Delvare
2007-05-14 18:43                     ` Linus Torvalds
2007-05-14 19:28                       ` Jean Delvare
2007-05-14 19:53                         ` Jeff Garzik
2007-05-14 20:18                           ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-05-14 20:17                         ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-05-14 20:15                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-05-15 20:31             ` CONFIG_BREAK_MY_MACHINE was " Pavel Machek
2007-05-16 18:11               ` CONFIG_BREAK_MY_MACHINE Jean Delvare
2007-05-17  8:32                 ` CONFIG_BREAK_MY_MACHINE Hans de Goede
2007-05-17  8:47                   ` CONFIG_BREAK_MY_MACHINE Pavel Machek
2007-05-13 18:19 ` Linux 2.6.22-rc1 Tilman Schmidt
2007-05-13 23:20   ` David Miller
2007-05-13 23:32     ` Roland Dreier
2007-05-13 23:57     ` Tilman Schmidt
2007-05-14  4:37     ` Sam Ravnborg
2007-05-14  4:53       ` David Miller
2007-05-14  6:21     ` Satyam Sharma
2007-05-14 17:21   ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-05-14 17:32     ` Stefan Richter
2007-05-14 20:27       ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-05-14 18:01     ` Tilman Schmidt
2007-05-14 20:33       ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-05-14 21:40         ` Tilman Schmidt
2007-05-14 22:09           ` Stefan Richter
2007-05-15  3:02             ` Satyam Sharma
2007-05-15  8:08               ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-05-14 21:54         ` Stefan Richter
2007-05-15  2:34         ` Satyam Sharma
2007-05-15  2:42           ` Satyam Sharma
2007-05-15  6:05             ` Stefan Richter
2007-05-15  6:01           ` Stefan Richter
2007-05-15  8:16           ` Jan Engelhardt [this message]
2007-05-16  1:52             ` Satyam Sharma
2007-05-16  6:29               ` Stefan Richter
2007-05-16  9:56                 ` Satyam Sharma
2007-05-15 10:43           ` Tilman Schmidt
2007-05-16  1:39             ` Satyam Sharma
2007-05-16  9:14               ` Tilman Schmidt
2007-05-16  9:17                 ` Satyam Sharma
2007-05-15  5:35         ` Michael Gerdau
2007-05-13 20:51 ` 2.6.22-rc1: loop.c Alexey Dobriyan
2007-05-14  3:52   ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-05-13 22:53 ` Linux 2.6.22-rc1 Jeff Chua
2007-05-14  1:08 ` andrew hendry
2007-05-14  7:49 ` V4L Regression (Was: Linux 2.6.22-rc1) Robert Fitzsimons
2007-05-14 11:44 ` Linux 2.6.22-rc1, 'nother randconfig David Howells
2007-05-14 17:23   ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-05-15  9:26   ` David Howells
2007-05-15  9:40     ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-05-15  4:14 ` Linux 2.6.22-rc1 andrew hendry
2007-05-15  4:38   ` Linus Torvalds
2007-05-15  5:10     ` andrew hendry
2007-05-15 15:57       ` Linus Torvalds
2007-05-15 22:50         ` andrew hendry
2007-05-13  6:00 Jeff Chua
2007-05-13  6:13 ` Jeff Chua
2007-05-13  8:04 ` Jan Engelhardt

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