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From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
To: David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org>
Cc: Randy Dunlap <randy.dunlap@oracle.com>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [patch] MTD: fix DOC2000/2001/2001PLUS build error
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 08:53:37 -0800 (PST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0702060841440.8424@woody.linux-foundation.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1170755101.29759.960.camel@pmac.infradead.org>



On Tue, 6 Feb 2007, David Woodhouse wrote:
> 
> It's a bad example because it's not relevant to the 'select' question,
> and you're trying to use it as a straw man; assigning to me a belief I
> just don't have.

It *is* relevant.

Why are you ignoring the ATA example? Which is exactly the same thing? 
(And where we do the right thing - we just "select SCSI")

Why are you ignoring the USB example - which is exactly the same thing 
(and where we do the *wrong* thing: we "depend on SCSI" and then we have 
about 5 lines of warning both around USB and around SCSI and documentation 
just to say that USB needs it!)

> Perhaps I haven't spoken carefully enough. I mean to argue that being
> nice is good -- but that we shouldn't do so in a way which _costs_ those
> who use the system most.

It costs you nothing but arguing. 

> No, you really aren't paying attention. You CAN DO IT WITHOUT SELECT.

No, I was paying attention. You seem to just be obtuse on purpose.

WE WANT TO BE NICE.
 - the firewall example was not an example of 'select', but of the "we 
   want to be nice". But you simply DID NOT GET IT.
 - the USB and SATA examples are *also* examples of "we want to be nice", 
   and hell yeah, you need 'select' to do them. Claiming anything else is 
   just stupid.

So: are you stupid, or do you just refuse to even think about it?

> My point is not that we shouldn't be helpful. My point is that 'select'
> is the _wrong_ way to be 'helpful', because that's a PITA for other
> people.

It's a PITA just because you don't listen, and ignore everything I say.

In other words, the problem is *you*.

The problem is NOT "select".

People have even pointed out that you don't even have to create new tools. 
Use menuconfig and "?", which apparently already tells you what the 
dependencies are, and why you can't turn something off..

And yes, I just tried. I couldn't turn SCSI off in menuconfig, so I 
pressed '?', and at the end it does actually say:

	Selected by: ATA && BLOCK && (!M32R && !M68K || BROKEN) && (!SUN4 || BROKEN)

Not hugely readable, and I'm sure it could be improved a lot. 

And yes, I certainly think that it would be a good idea if there would be 
other tools that told you too.  The Kconfig engine *internally* already 
knows all this, of course, so all the hard work has already effectively 
been done, it's just not *shown*.

So you should just face it: the problem *really* isn't 'select'. 

		Linus

  parent reply	other threads:[~2007-02-06 16:53 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 95+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-02-04 19:10 Super Kernel Sunday! Linus Torvalds
2007-02-04 19:40 ` Bauke Jan Douma
2007-02-04 21:00   ` Gene Heskett
2007-02-04 21:11   ` Kevin K
2007-02-04 19:56 ` Alessandro Suardi
2007-02-05  8:39 ` Jonathan Sambrook
2007-02-05  8:45 ` [patch] MTD: fix DOC2000/2001/2001PLUS build error Ingo Molnar
2007-02-05 13:06   ` Josh Boyer
2007-02-05 13:34   ` David Woodhouse
2007-02-05 15:56     ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-05 16:08       ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-02-05 16:12       ` Russell King
2007-02-05 16:17         ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-05 16:22       ` David Woodhouse
2007-02-05 16:26         ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-05 16:31           ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-05 16:58             ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-05 17:05               ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-05 17:08               ` Russell King
2007-02-05 21:15               ` Ingo Oeser
2007-02-06 13:32                 ` Gerhard Mack
2007-02-05 21:17               ` David Woodhouse
2007-02-05 21:28                 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-05 21:39                   ` David Woodhouse
2007-02-05 21:49                     ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-05 21:53                       ` David Woodhouse
2007-02-05 22:21                         ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-05 22:31                           ` Randy Dunlap
2007-02-05 23:09                             ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-05 23:21                               ` David Woodhouse
2007-02-05 23:32                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-06  0:04                                   ` Mark Rustad
2007-02-06 15:55                                     ` Bill Davidsen
2007-02-06 16:20                                       ` Mark Rustad
2007-02-06  9:45                                   ` David Woodhouse
2007-02-06 15:51                                     ` Bill Davidsen
2007-02-06 16:53                                     ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2007-02-06 22:38                                       ` David Woodhouse
2007-02-06 22:39                                         ` Randy Dunlap
2007-02-06 23:11                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-06 23:15                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-06 23:18                                             ` David Woodhouse
2007-02-06 23:49                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-06 22:53                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-06 23:11                                           ` David Woodhouse
2007-02-06 23:28                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-06 23:36                                               ` David Woodhouse
2007-02-06 23:41                                                 ` Randy Dunlap
2007-02-06 23:49                                                   ` David Woodhouse
2007-02-06 23:52                                                   ` Robert P. J. Day
2007-02-06 23:55                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-07  0:03                                                   ` David Woodhouse
2007-02-07  0:21                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-07  0:30                                                       ` Randy Dunlap
2007-02-07  0:37                                                       ` David Woodhouse
2007-02-07  2:09                                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-07 13:51                                                       ` Sunil Naidu
2007-02-06  1:09                                 ` Theodore Tso
2007-02-06  6:09                                   ` Matt Mackall
2007-02-06 16:04                                     ` Bill Davidsen
2007-02-06 16:41                                       ` Matt Mackall
2007-02-06 18:03                                         ` Bill Davidsen
2007-02-06  0:00                               ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-06 13:52                               ` Jörn Engel
2007-02-06 15:16                               ` Mark Lord
2007-02-08  8:18                                 ` David Lang
2007-02-08  9:44                                 ` Jörn Engel
2007-02-06 15:41                           ` Bill Davidsen
2007-02-05 22:21                       ` Alan
2007-02-05 22:35                         ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-05 21:50                 ` Alan
2007-02-05 21:41                   ` David Woodhouse
2007-02-06  5:46                 ` Matt Mackall
2007-02-06 15:34                   ` Paul Mundt
2007-02-06 22:39                   ` Haavard Skinnemoen
2007-02-06 22:51                     ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-05 16:33           ` David Woodhouse
2007-02-05 16:46           ` Russell King
2007-02-05 16:52             ` Ingo Molnar
2007-02-05 17:04               ` Russell King
2007-02-05 16:32     ` Linus Torvalds
2007-02-05 16:50       ` Russell King
2007-02-05 16:52       ` David Woodhouse
2007-02-05 17:58 ` Super Kernel Sunday! Jan Engelhardt
2007-02-05 18:07   ` Kevin Fox
2007-02-06 19:02   ` Stephen Hemminger
2007-02-05 21:27 ` [2.6.20] Regression in dmfe driver Thomas Bächler
2007-02-06  9:38   ` Thierry Vignaud
2007-02-06 22:40     ` Thomas Bächler
2007-02-27 13:58 ` [PATA] Failed to set xfermode on LITE-ON LTR-48246S Philipp Matthias Hahn
2007-03-05  4:10   ` Tejun Heo
2007-03-05 10:38     ` Philipp Matthias Hahn
2007-03-05 15:46       ` Tejun Heo
2007-03-06  9:23         ` Philipp Matthias Hahn
2007-03-09 12:50           ` Tejun Heo

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