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* default y idiocy
@ 2007-05-12 18:23 Jens Axboe
  2007-05-12 19:22 ` Jan Engelhardt
  2007-05-12 19:58 ` Simon Arlott
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Jens Axboe @ 2007-05-12 18:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: linux-kernel; +Cc: mchehab, jengelh

Hi,

This has bothered me for a long time, and it just seems to be getting
worse. Can people please STOP defaulting non-essential stuff to 'y'?
Grrr.

diff --git a/drivers/macintosh/Kconfig b/drivers/macintosh/Kconfig
index 58926da..adbb5ca 100644
--- a/drivers/macintosh/Kconfig
+++ b/drivers/macintosh/Kconfig
@@ -2,7 +2,6 @@
 menuconfig MACINTOSH_DRIVERS
 	bool "Macintosh device drivers"
 	depends on PPC || MAC || X86
-	default y
 
 if MACINTOSH_DRIVERS
 
diff --git a/drivers/media/Kconfig b/drivers/media/Kconfig
index 624b21c..986dcbc 100644
--- a/drivers/media/Kconfig
+++ b/drivers/media/Kconfig
@@ -89,7 +89,6 @@ config VIDEO_TVEEPROM
 
 config DAB
 	boolean "DAB adapters"
-	default y
 	---help---
 	  Allow selecting support for for Digital Audio Broadcasting (DAB)
 	  Receiver adapters.

-- 
Jens Axboe


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: default y idiocy
  2007-05-12 18:23 default y idiocy Jens Axboe
@ 2007-05-12 19:22 ` Jan Engelhardt
  2007-05-12 19:27   ` Jens Axboe
  2007-05-12 19:58 ` Simon Arlott
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Jan Engelhardt @ 2007-05-12 19:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jens Axboe; +Cc: linux-kernel, mchehab


On May 12 2007 20:23, Jens Axboe wrote:
>Hi,
>
>This has bothered me for a long time, and it just seems to be getting
>worse. Can people please STOP defaulting non-essential stuff to 'y'?
>Grrr.

http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/5/8/76



	Jan
-- 

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: default y idiocy
  2007-05-12 19:22 ` Jan Engelhardt
@ 2007-05-12 19:27   ` Jens Axboe
  2007-05-12 19:37     ` Jan Engelhardt
  2007-05-12 20:09     ` Alan Cox
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Jens Axboe @ 2007-05-12 19:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jan Engelhardt; +Cc: linux-kernel, mchehab

On Sat, May 12 2007, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
> 
> On May 12 2007 20:23, Jens Axboe wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >This has bothered me for a long time, and it just seems to be getting
> >worse. Can people please STOP defaulting non-essential stuff to 'y'?
> >Grrr.
> 
> http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/5/8/76

Sorry, I don't buy that reason at all - it's a short term advantage,
causing long term pain. It's not what we have done in the past, don't
start doing crap like that now.

-- 
Jens Axboe


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: default y idiocy
  2007-05-12 19:27   ` Jens Axboe
@ 2007-05-12 19:37     ` Jan Engelhardt
  2007-05-12 19:45       ` Jens Axboe
  2007-05-12 20:09     ` Alan Cox
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Jan Engelhardt @ 2007-05-12 19:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jens Axboe; +Cc: linux-kernel, mchehab


On May 12 2007 21:27, Jens Axboe wrote:
>On Sat, May 12 2007, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
>> 
>> On May 12 2007 20:23, Jens Axboe wrote:
>> >Hi,
>> >
>> >This has bothered me for a long time, and it just seems to be getting
>> >worse. Can people please STOP defaulting non-essential stuff to 'y'?
>> >Grrr.
>> 
>> http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/5/8/76
>
>Sorry, I don't buy that reason at all - it's a short term advantage,
>causing long term pain. It's not what we have done in the past, don't
>start doing crap like that now.

Right, I shall create some patches to revert that and send them off
to Linus ASAP.


	Jan
-- 

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: default y idiocy
  2007-05-12 19:37     ` Jan Engelhardt
@ 2007-05-12 19:45       ` Jens Axboe
  2007-05-12 20:14         ` Jan Engelhardt
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Jens Axboe @ 2007-05-12 19:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jan Engelhardt; +Cc: linux-kernel, mchehab

On Sat, May 12 2007, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
> 
> On May 12 2007 21:27, Jens Axboe wrote:
> >On Sat, May 12 2007, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
> >> 
> >> On May 12 2007 20:23, Jens Axboe wrote:
> >> >Hi,
> >> >
> >> >This has bothered me for a long time, and it just seems to be getting
> >> >worse. Can people please STOP defaulting non-essential stuff to 'y'?
> >> >Grrr.
> >> 
> >> http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/5/8/76
> >
> >Sorry, I don't buy that reason at all - it's a short term advantage,
> >causing long term pain. It's not what we have done in the past, don't
> >start doing crap like that now.
> 
> Right, I shall create some patches to revert that and send them off
> to Linus ASAP.

Thanks!

-- 
Jens Axboe


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: default y idiocy
  2007-05-12 18:23 default y idiocy Jens Axboe
  2007-05-12 19:22 ` Jan Engelhardt
@ 2007-05-12 19:58 ` Simon Arlott
  2007-05-12 20:05   ` Jens Axboe
                     ` (2 more replies)
  1 sibling, 3 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Simon Arlott @ 2007-05-12 19:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jens Axboe; +Cc: linux-kernel, netdev, linux-scsi

On 12/05/07 19:23, Jens Axboe wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> This has bothered me for a long time, and it just seems to be getting
> worse. Can people please STOP defaulting non-essential stuff to 'y'?
> Grrr.

Is there a reason why various 10/100/1000Mbit network cards are 'y' too?
There's even a default SCSI 'm' that seems to be completely hidden from 
the menu too (CONFIG_SCSI_WAIT_SCAN). It depends on SCSI but I can't 
disable SCSI...

-- 
Simon Arlott

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: default y idiocy
  2007-05-12 19:58 ` Simon Arlott
@ 2007-05-12 20:05   ` Jens Axboe
  2007-05-12 20:56   ` James Bottomley
  2007-05-12 21:14   ` Satyam Sharma
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Jens Axboe @ 2007-05-12 20:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Simon Arlott; +Cc: linux-kernel, netdev, linux-scsi

On Sat, May 12 2007, Simon Arlott wrote:
> On 12/05/07 19:23, Jens Axboe wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >This has bothered me for a long time, and it just seems to be getting
> >worse. Can people please STOP defaulting non-essential stuff to 'y'?
> >Grrr.
> 
> Is there a reason why various 10/100/1000Mbit network cards are 'y' too?
> There's even a default SCSI 'm' that seems to be completely hidden from 
> the menu too (CONFIG_SCSI_WAIT_SCAN). It depends on SCSI but I can't 
> disable SCSI...

For the exact same (wrong) reason that the other menuconfig changes did
it, I suppose. Need fixing, too.

-- 
Jens Axboe


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: default y idiocy
  2007-05-12 19:27   ` Jens Axboe
  2007-05-12 19:37     ` Jan Engelhardt
@ 2007-05-12 20:09     ` Alan Cox
  2007-05-12 20:09       ` Jens Axboe
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Alan Cox @ 2007-05-12 20:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jens Axboe; +Cc: Jan Engelhardt, linux-kernel, mchehab

> Sorry, I don't buy that reason at all - it's a short term advantage,
> causing long term pain. It's not what we have done in the past, don't
> start doing crap like that now.

It doesn't really matter what it defaults too

cp .config somewheresafe

Install new kernel

cp it back

make oldconfig

Alan

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: default y idiocy
  2007-05-12 20:09     ` Alan Cox
@ 2007-05-12 20:09       ` Jens Axboe
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Jens Axboe @ 2007-05-12 20:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Alan Cox; +Cc: Jan Engelhardt, linux-kernel, mchehab

On Sat, May 12 2007, Alan Cox wrote:
> > Sorry, I don't buy that reason at all - it's a short term advantage,
> > causing long term pain. It's not what we have done in the past, don't
> > start doing crap like that now.
> 
> It doesn't really matter what it defaults too

It does matter what it defaults to, it should only default to y if it's
really needed. If it didn't matter, just default every driver to y?
Thanks, but no thanks.

> cp .config somewheresafe
> 
> Install new kernel
> 
> cp it back
> 
> make oldconfig

Ehm yes, kernel updating 101. What's your point? Do that with your
2.6.21 config and get met with lots of new questions on ps2, ethernet,
macintosh drivers, dab, etc. All because of some menuconfig shuffling.

-- 
Jens Axboe


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: default y idiocy
  2007-05-12 19:45       ` Jens Axboe
@ 2007-05-12 20:14         ` Jan Engelhardt
  2007-05-13  0:46           ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Jan Engelhardt @ 2007-05-12 20:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Linus Torvalds
  Cc: Linux Kernel Mailing List, mchehab, Alan Cox, Jens Axboe, Andrew Morton

Hi Linus,


>> >> On May 12 2007 20:23, Jens Axboe wrote:
>> >> >Hi,
>> >> >
>> >> >This has bothered me for a long time, and it just seems to be getting
>> >> >worse. Can people please STOP defaulting non-essential stuff to 'y'?
>> >> >Grrr.
>> >> 
>> >> http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/5/8/76
>> >
>> >Sorry, I don't buy that reason at all - it's a short term advantage,
>> >causing long term pain. It's not what we have done in the past, don't
>> >start doing crap like that now.
>> 
>> Right, I shall create some patches to revert that and send them off
>> to Linus ASAP.
>
>Thanks!

Revert "default y" in Kconfig files that were introduced as part of my 
menuconfig objects series (unfortunately, more patches may find their 
way into mainline as subsystem maintainers merge). Apply this for now, 
please.

Signed-off-by: Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@gmx.de>

 drivers/atm/Kconfig         |    1 -
 drivers/macintosh/Kconfig   |    1 -
 drivers/media/radio/Kconfig |    1 -
 drivers/media/video/Kconfig |    2 --
 drivers/net/Kconfig         |    1 -
 5 files changed, 0 insertions(+), 6 deletions(-)

diff --git a/drivers/atm/Kconfig b/drivers/atm/Kconfig
index f5a47a4..b466a5c 100644
--- a/drivers/atm/Kconfig
+++ b/drivers/atm/Kconfig
@@ -5,7 +5,6 @@
 menuconfig ATM_DRIVERS
 	bool "ATM drivers"
 	depends on NETDEVICES && ATM
-	default y
 
 if ATM_DRIVERS
 
diff --git a/drivers/macintosh/Kconfig b/drivers/macintosh/Kconfig
index 58926da..adbb5ca 100644
--- a/drivers/macintosh/Kconfig
+++ b/drivers/macintosh/Kconfig
@@ -2,7 +2,6 @@
 menuconfig MACINTOSH_DRIVERS
 	bool "Macintosh device drivers"
 	depends on PPC || MAC || X86
-	default y
 
 if MACINTOSH_DRIVERS
 
diff --git a/drivers/media/radio/Kconfig b/drivers/media/radio/Kconfig
index a6ac82a..0486780 100644
--- a/drivers/media/radio/Kconfig
+++ b/drivers/media/radio/Kconfig
@@ -5,7 +5,6 @@
 menuconfig RADIO_ADAPTERS
 	bool "Radio Adapters"
 	depends on VIDEO_DEV
-	default y
 	---help---
 	  Say Y here to enable selecting AM/FM radio adapters.
 
diff --git a/drivers/media/video/Kconfig b/drivers/media/video/Kconfig
index 5cb3f54..ca33d55 100644
--- a/drivers/media/video/Kconfig
+++ b/drivers/media/video/Kconfig
@@ -5,7 +5,6 @@
 menuconfig VIDEO_CAPTURE_DRIVERS
 	bool "Video capture adapters"
 	depends on VIDEO_DEV
-	default y
 	---help---
 	  Say Y here to enable selecting the video adapters for
 	  webcams, analog TV, and hybrid analog/digital TV.
@@ -689,7 +688,6 @@ config VIDEO_CAFE_CCIC
 menuconfig V4L_USB_DRIVERS
 	bool "V4L USB devices"
 	depends on USB
-	default y
 
 if V4L_USB_DRIVERS
 
diff --git a/drivers/net/Kconfig b/drivers/net/Kconfig
index fb99cd4..80f5413 100644
--- a/drivers/net/Kconfig
+++ b/drivers/net/Kconfig
@@ -1901,7 +1901,6 @@ endmenu
 menuconfig NETDEV_1000
 	bool "Ethernet (1000 Mbit)"
 	depends on !UML
-	default y
 
 if NETDEV_1000
 
#<EOF>

	Jan
-- 

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: default y idiocy
  2007-05-12 19:58 ` Simon Arlott
  2007-05-12 20:05   ` Jens Axboe
@ 2007-05-12 20:56   ` James Bottomley
  2007-05-13 16:46     ` Krzysztof Halasa
  2007-05-12 21:14   ` Satyam Sharma
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: James Bottomley @ 2007-05-12 20:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Simon Arlott; +Cc: Jens Axboe, linux-kernel, netdev, linux-scsi

On Sat, 2007-05-12 at 20:58 +0100, Simon Arlott wrote:
> On 12/05/07 19:23, Jens Axboe wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > This has bothered me for a long time, and it just seems to be getting
> > worse. Can people please STOP defaulting non-essential stuff to 'y'?
> > Grrr.
> 
> Is there a reason why various 10/100/1000Mbit network cards are 'y' too?
> There's even a default SCSI 'm' that seems to be completely hidden from 
> the menu too (CONFIG_SCSI_WAIT_SCAN). It depends on SCSI but I can't 
> disable SCSI...

That might not necessarily be our fault ... there's no default 'm' for
SCSI in drivers/scsi/Kconfig.  On the other hand, the select directive
can also be the cause of these problems, for instance
drivers/ata/Kconfig has a select SCSI at the top, so if you selected
modular ATA, you'll be forced to have modular SCSI.

James



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: default y idiocy
  2007-05-12 19:58 ` Simon Arlott
  2007-05-12 20:05   ` Jens Axboe
  2007-05-12 20:56   ` James Bottomley
@ 2007-05-12 21:14   ` Satyam Sharma
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Satyam Sharma @ 2007-05-12 21:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Simon Arlott; +Cc: Jens Axboe, linux-kernel, Andrew Morton, Christoph Lameter

On 5/13/07, Simon Arlott <simon@fire.lp0.eu> wrote:
> On 12/05/07 19:23, Jens Axboe wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > This has bothered me for a long time, and it just seems to be getting
> > worse. Can people please STOP defaulting non-essential stuff to 'y'?
> > Grrr.
>
> Is there a reason why various 10/100/1000Mbit network cards are 'y' too?
> There's even a default SCSI 'm' that seems to be completely hidden from
> the menu too (CONFIG_SCSI_WAIT_SCAN). It depends on SCSI but I can't
> disable SCSI...

Yeah, I've seen a lot of unnecessary default y's too, seems to be a
contagious disease.

And there are another kind of (harmless) default y's too, that don't really
force unnecessary compilation and linking of stuff into the kernel at all,
ones like (21-mm2's) init/Kconfig: SLUB_DEBUG = default y (it's
completely contained in mm/slub.c and not exposed to mm/Makefile),
but it still seems funny to find a spurious CONFIG_SLUB_DEBUG=y in
your .config when you also have # CONFIG_SLUB is not set.

Do we care enough to fix such cases too? This was a one-liner, so
including a patch anyway, CC'ing to Andrew and Christoph.

---

Prevent SLUB_DEBUG from being set if SLUB is not. SLUB_DEBUG
without SLUB does not cause anything to be compiled or linked in
anyway, so this is not critical, but simply removes a spurious
CONFIG_SLUB_DEBUG=y from creeping into the .config even when
CONFIG_SLUB is not set.

Signed-off-by: Satyam Sharma <satyam.sharma@gmail.com>

---

diff -ruNp a-mm2/init/Kconfig b-mm2/init/Kconfig
--- a-mm2/init/Kconfig	2007-05-10 23:19:36.000000000 +0530
+++ b-mm2/init/Kconfig	2007-05-13 02:33:21.000000000 +0530
@@ -567,7 +567,7 @@ config VM_EVENT_COUNTERS
 	  if VM event counters are disabled.

 config SLUB_DEBUG
-	default y
+	default y if SLUB
 	bool "Enable SLUB debugging support" if EMBEDDED
 	help
 	  SLUB has extensive debug support features. Disabling these can

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: default y idiocy
  2007-05-12 20:14         ` Jan Engelhardt
@ 2007-05-13  0:46           ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Mauro Carvalho Chehab @ 2007-05-13  0:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jan Engelhardt
  Cc: Linus Torvalds, Linux Kernel Mailing List, Alan Cox, Jens Axboe,
	Andrew Morton

Hi Jan,

All the submenus bellow are dependent of VIDEO_DEV (Video4Linux core).
If someone wants V4L, it is very likely that he will select a radio or a
video adapter, since the subsystem is useless without the drivers (*).

(*) Except if you are using an out-of-tree driver.

> diff --git a/drivers/media/radio/Kconfig b/drivers/media/radio/Kconfig
> index a6ac82a..0486780 100644
> --- a/drivers/media/radio/Kconfig
> +++ b/drivers/media/radio/Kconfig
> @@ -5,7 +5,6 @@
>  menuconfig RADIO_ADAPTERS
>  	bool "Radio Adapters"
>  	depends on VIDEO_DEV
> -	default y
>  	---help---
>  	  Say Y here to enable selecting AM/FM radio adapters.
>  
> diff --git a/drivers/media/video/Kconfig b/drivers/media/video/Kconfig
> index 5cb3f54..ca33d55 100644
> --- a/drivers/media/video/Kconfig
> +++ b/drivers/media/video/Kconfig
> @@ -5,7 +5,6 @@
>  menuconfig VIDEO_CAPTURE_DRIVERS
>  	bool "Video capture adapters"
>  	depends on VIDEO_DEV
> -	default y
>  	---help---
>  	  Say Y here to enable selecting the video adapters for
>  	  webcams, analog TV, and hybrid analog/digital TV.
> @@ -689,7 +688,6 @@ config VIDEO_CAFE_CCIC
>  menuconfig V4L_USB_DRIVERS
>  	bool "V4L USB devices"
>  	depends on USB
> -	default y

It should be noticed that selecting the "Drivers" Kconfig items won't
produce any code. No drivers are marked with default.

Those items are just used to better organize Multimedia menu. The result
of having 'y' is just to have the submenus open by default. For me, it
makes sense to keep default y, especially if we consider the arguments
at:

http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/5/8/76

This is also the same case for DVB drivers submenu:

menuconfig DVB_CAPTURE_DRIVERS
        bool "DVB/ATSC adapters"
        depends on DVB_CORE
        default y
        ---help---
          Say Y to select Digital TV adapters

Just to keep the entire menu coherent, "default y" were added for DAB:

config DAB
        boolean "DAB adapters"
        default y
        ---help---
          Allow selecting support for for Digital Audio Broadcasting (DAB)
          Receiver adapters.

if DAB
config USB_DABUSB
        tristate "DABUSB driver"
        depends on USB
        ---help---
          A Digital Audio Broadcasting (DAB) Receiver for USB and Linux
          brought to you by the DAB-Team
          <http://wwwbode.cs.tum.edu/Par/arch/dab/>.  This driver can be taken
          as an example for URB-based bulk, control, and isochronous
          transactions. URB's are explained in
          <Documentation/usb/URB.txt>.

          To compile this driver as a module, choose M here: the
          module will be called dabusb.
endif # DAB

It is fine for me to remove "default y" for DAB, although i would prefer
to have it marked as 'y' just for coherence.
 
Cheers,
Mauro


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

* Re: default y idiocy
  2007-05-12 20:56   ` James Bottomley
@ 2007-05-13 16:46     ` Krzysztof Halasa
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Krzysztof Halasa @ 2007-05-13 16:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: James Bottomley
  Cc: Simon Arlott, Jens Axboe, linux-kernel, netdev, linux-scsi

James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@SteelEye.com> writes:

> drivers/ata/Kconfig has a select SCSI at the top, so if you selected
> modular ATA, you'll be forced to have modular SCSI.

Or built-in.
-- 
Krzysztof Halasa

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2007-05-13 16:46 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 14+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2007-05-12 18:23 default y idiocy Jens Axboe
2007-05-12 19:22 ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-05-12 19:27   ` Jens Axboe
2007-05-12 19:37     ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-05-12 19:45       ` Jens Axboe
2007-05-12 20:14         ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-05-13  0:46           ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2007-05-12 20:09     ` Alan Cox
2007-05-12 20:09       ` Jens Axboe
2007-05-12 19:58 ` Simon Arlott
2007-05-12 20:05   ` Jens Axboe
2007-05-12 20:56   ` James Bottomley
2007-05-13 16:46     ` Krzysztof Halasa
2007-05-12 21:14   ` Satyam Sharma

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