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From: Saeed Mahameed <saeed@kernel.org>
To: Jakub Kicinski <kuba@kernel.org>,
	Alexander Lobakin <alexandr.lobakin@intel.com>
Cc: "David S. Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	Jesse Brandeburg <jesse.brandeburg@intel.com>,
	Lukasz Czapnik <lukasz.czapnik@intel.com>,
	Marcin Kubiak <marcin.kubiak@intel.com>,
	Michal Kubiak <michal.kubiak@intel.com>,
	Michal Swiatkowski <michal.swiatkowski@intel.com>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	Netanel Belgazal <netanel@amazon.com>,
	Arthur Kiyanovski <akiyano@amazon.com>,
	Guy Tzalik <gtzalik@amazon.com>,
	Saeed Bishara <saeedb@amazon.com>,
	Ioana Ciornei <ioana.ciornei@nxp.com>,
	Claudiu Manoil <claudiu.manoil@nxp.com>,
	Thomas Petazzoni <thomas.petazzoni@bootlin.com>,
	Marcin Wojtas <mw@semihalf.com>,
	Russell King <linux@armlinux.org.uk>,
	Edward Cree <ecree.xilinx@gmail.com>,
	Martin Habets <habetsm.xilinx@gmail.com>,
	"Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>,
	Jason Wang <jasowang@redhat.com>,
	Alexei Starovoitov <ast@kernel.org>,
	Daniel Borkmann <daniel@iogearbox.net>,
	Jesper Dangaard Brouer <hawk@kernel.org>,
	John Fastabend <john.fastabend@gmail.com>,
	Andrii Nakryiko <andrii@kernel.org>,
	Martin KaFai Lau <kafai@fb.com>, Song Liu <songliubraving@fb.com>,
	Yonghong Song <yhs@fb.com>, KP Singh <kpsingh@kernel.org>,
	Shay Agroskin <shayagr@amazon.com>,
	Sameeh Jubran <sameehj@amazon.com>,
	Alexander Duyck <alexanderduyck@fb.com>,
	Danielle Ratson <danieller@nvidia.com>,
	Ido Schimmel <idosch@nvidia.com>, Andrew Lunn <andrew@lunn.ch>,
	Vladyslav Tarasiuk <vladyslavt@nvidia.com>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Jian Shen <shenjian15@huawei.com>,
	Petr Vorel <petr.vorel@gmail.com>, Dan Murphy <dmurphy@ti.com>,
	Yangbo Lu <yangbo.lu@nxp.com>, Michal Kubecek <mkubecek@suse.cz>,
	Zheng Yongjun <zhengyongjun3@huawei.com>,
	Heiner Kallweit <hkallweit1@gmail.com>,
	YueHaibing <yuehaibing@huawei.com>,
	Johannes Berg <johannes@sipsolutions.net>,
	netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, bpf@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next 03/21] ethtool, stats: introduce standard XDP statistics
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2021 16:57:22 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <ec0aefbc987575d1979f9102d331bd3e8f809824.camel@kernel.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20210803134900.578b4c37@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com>

On Tue, 2021-08-03 at 13:49 -0700, Jakub Kicinski wrote:
> On Tue,  3 Aug 2021 18:36:23 +0200 Alexander Lobakin wrote:
> > Most of the driver-side XDP enabled drivers provide some statistics
> > on XDP programs runs and different actions taken (number of passes,
> > drops, redirects etc.).
> 
> Could you please share the statistics to back that statement up?
> Having uAPI for XDP stats is pretty much making the recommendation 
> that drivers should implement such stats. The recommendation from
> Alexei and others back in the day (IIRC) was that XDP programs should
> implement stats, not the drivers, to avoid duplication.
> 

There are stats "mainly errors*"  that are not even visible or reported
to the user prog, for that i had an idea in the past to attach an
exception_bpf_prog provided by the user, where driver/stack will report
errors to this special exception_prog.

> > Regarding that it's almost pretty the same across all the drivers
> > (which is obvious), we can implement some sort of "standardized"
> > statistics using Ethtool standard stats infra to eliminate a lot
> > of code and stringsets duplication, different approaches to count
> > these stats and so on.
> 
> I'm not 100% sold on the fact that these should be ethtool stats. 
> Why not rtnl_fill_statsinfo() stats? Current ethtool std stats are 
> all pretty Ethernet specific, and all HW stats. Mixing HW and SW
> stats
> is what we're trying to get away from.
> 

XDP is going to always be eBPF based ! why not just report such stats
to a special BPF_MAP ? BPF stack can collect the stats from the driver
and report them to this special MAP upon user request.

> > These new 12 fields provided by the standard XDP stats should cover
> > most, if not all, stats that might be interesting for collecting
> > and
> > tracking.
> > Note that most NIC drivers keep XDP statistics on a per-channel
> > basis, so this also introduces a new callback for getting a number
> > of channels which a driver will provide stats for. If it's not
> > implemented or returns 0, it means stats are global/device-wide.
> 
> Per-channel stats via std ethtool stats are not a good idea. Per
> queue
> stats must be via the queue netlink interface we keep talking about
> for
> ever but which doesn't seem to materialize. When stats are reported
> via
> a different interface than objects they pertain to matching stats,
> objects and their lifetime becomes very murky.



  reply	other threads:[~2021-08-03 23:57 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 45+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-08-03 16:36 [PATCH net-next 00/21] ethtool, stats: introduce and use standard XDP stats Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-03 16:36 ` [PATCH net-next 01/21] ethtool, stats: use a shorthand pointer in stats_prepare_data() Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-03 16:36 ` [PATCH net-next 02/21] ethtool, stats: add compile-time checks for standard stats Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-03 16:36 ` [PATCH net-next 03/21] ethtool, stats: introduce standard XDP statistics Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-03 20:49   ` Jakub Kicinski
2021-08-03 23:57     ` Saeed Mahameed [this message]
2021-08-04 12:36       ` Jakub Kicinski
2021-08-04 15:53         ` Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-04 16:57           ` Jakub Kicinski
2021-08-05 11:18             ` Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-05 13:31               ` Jakub Kicinski
2021-08-04 16:17         ` David Ahern
2021-08-04 16:44           ` Jakub Kicinski
2021-08-04 17:28             ` David Ahern
2021-08-04 18:27               ` Saeed Mahameed
2021-08-05  0:43                 ` David Ahern
2021-08-05  2:14                   ` Saeed Mahameed
2021-08-12 12:19             ` Jesper Dangaard Brouer
2021-10-26  9:23       ` Alexander Lobakin
2021-11-05 16:44         ` Alexander Lobakin
2021-11-08 11:37           ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2021-11-08 13:21             ` Alexander Lobakin
2021-11-08 18:09               ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2021-08-03 16:36 ` [PATCH net-next 04/21] ethernet, dpaa2: simplify per-channel Ethtool stats counting Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-03 16:36 ` [PATCH net-next 05/21] ethernet, dpaa2: convert to standard XDP stats Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-03 16:36 ` [PATCH net-next 06/21] ethernet, ena: constify src and syncp args of ena_safe_update_stat() Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-03 16:36 ` [PATCH net-next 07/21] ethernet, ena: convert to standard XDP stats Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-04 13:04   ` Shay Agroskin
2021-08-04 15:24     ` Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-03 16:36 ` [PATCH net-next 08/21] ethernet, enetc: " Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-03 16:36 ` [PATCH net-next 09/21] ethernet, mvneta: rename xdp_xmit_err to xdp_xmit_drops Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-03 16:36 ` [PATCH net-next 10/21] ethernet, mvneta: convert to standard XDP stats Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-03 16:36 ` [PATCH net-next 11/21] ethernet, mvpp2: rename xdp_xmit_err to xdp_xmit_drops Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-03 16:36 ` [PATCH net-next 12/21] ethernet, mvpp2: convert to standard XDP stats Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-03 16:36 ` [PATCH net-next 13/21] ethernet, sfc: " Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-03 17:59   ` Edward Cree
2021-08-03 16:36 ` [PATCH net-next 14/21] veth: rename rx_drops to xdp_errors Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-03 16:36 ` [PATCH net-next 15/21] veth: rename xdp_xmit_errors to xdp_xmit_drops Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-03 16:36 ` [PATCH net-next 16/21] veth: rename drop xdp_ suffix from packets and bytes stats Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-03 16:36 ` [PATCH net-next 17/21] veth: convert to standard XDP stats Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-03 16:36 ` [PATCH net-next 18/21] virtio-net: rename xdp_tx{,__drops} SQ stats to xdp_xmit{,__drops} Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-03 16:42 ` Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-03 16:42 ` [PATCH net-next 19/21] virtio-net: don't mix error-caused drops with XDP_DROP cases Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-03 16:42 ` [PATCH net-next 20/21] virtio-net: convert to standard XDP stats Alexander Lobakin
2021-08-03 16:42 ` [PATCH net-next 21/21] Documentation, ethtool-netlink: update standard statistics documentation Alexander Lobakin

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