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From: "Russell King (Oracle)" <linux@armlinux.org.uk>
To: Madalin Bucur <madalin.bucur@nxp.com>
Cc: "Pali Rohár" <pali@kernel.org>, "Andrew Lunn" <andrew@lunn.ch>,
	"Igal Liberman" <Igal.Liberman@freescale.com>,
	"Shruti Kanetkar" <Shruti@freescale.com>,
	"Emil Medve" <Emilian.Medve@freescale.com>,
	"Scott Wood" <oss@buserror.net>,
	"Rob Herring" <robh+dt@kernel.org>,
	"Michael Ellerman" <mpe@ellerman.id.au>,
	"Benjamin Herrenschmidt" <benh@kernel.crashing.org>,
	"netdev@vger.kernel.org" <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
	"devicetree@vger.kernel.org" <devicetree@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"Camelia Alexandra Groza (OSS)" <camelia.groza@oss.nxp.com>
Subject: Re: Unsupported phy-connection-type sgmii-2500 in arch/powerpc/boot/dts/fsl/t1023rdb.dts
Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2021 20:27:33 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20210604192732.GW30436@shell.armlinux.org.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <AM6PR04MB3976B62084EC462BA02F0C4CEC3B9@AM6PR04MB3976.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com>

On Fri, Jun 04, 2021 at 07:35:33AM +0000, Madalin Bucur wrote:
> Hi, the Freescale emails no longer work, years after Freescale joined NXP.
> Also, the first four recipients no longer work for NXP.
> 
> In regards to the sgmii-2500 you see in the device tree, it describes SGMII
> overclocked to 2.5Gbps, with autonegotiation disabled. 
> 
> A quote from a long time ago, from someone from the HW team on this:
> 
> 	The industry consensus is that 2.5G SGMII is overclocked 1G SGMII
> 	using XAUI electricals. For the PCS and MAC layers, it looks exactly
> 	like 1G SGMII, just with a faster clock.
> 
> The statement that it does not exist is not accurate, it exists in HW, and
> it is described as such in the device tree. Whether or not it is properly
> treated in SW it's another discussion.

Here's the issue though:

802.3 defined 1000base-X which is a fixed 1G speed interface using a
16-bit control word. Implementations of this exist where the control
word can be disabled.

Cisco came along, took 1000base-X and augmented it to allow speeds of
10M and 100M by symbol repetition, and changing the format of the
16-bit control word. Otherwise, it is functionally compatible - indeed
SGMII with the control word disabled will connect with 1000base-X with
the control word disabled. I've done it several times.

There exists 2500base-X, which is 1000base-X clocked faster, and it
seems the concensus is that it has the AN disabled - in other words,
no control word.

Now you're saying that SGMII at 2.5G speed exists, which is 1G SGMII
fixed at 1G speed, without a control word, upclocked by 2.5x.

My question to you is how is how is this SGMII 2.5G different from
2500base-X?

> In 2015, when this was submitted,
> there were no other 2.5G compatibles in use, if I'm not mistaken.
> 2500Base-X started to be added to device trees four years later, it should
> be compatible/interworking but it is less specific on the actual implementation
> details (denotes 2.5G speed, 8b/10b coding, which is true for this overclocked
> SGMII). If they are compatible, SW should probably treat them in the same manner.

My argument has been (since I've had experience of SGMII talking to
1000base-X, and have also accidentally clocked such a scenario at
2.5G speeds) that there is in fact no functional difference between
SGMII and base-X when they are running at identical speeds with the
control word disabled.

Given that we well know that industry likes to use the term "SGMII"
very loosely to mean <whatever>base-X as well as SGMII, it becomes
a very bad term to use when we wish to differentiate between a
base-X and a real Cisco SGMII link with their different control word
formats.

And this has always been my point - industry has created confusion
over these terms, but as software programmers, we need to know the
difference. So, SGMII should _only_ be used to identify the Cisco
SGMII modified version of 802.3 base-X _with_ the modified control
word or with the capability of symbol repetition. In other words,
the very features that make it SGMII as opposed to 802.3 base-X.
Everything else should not use the term SGMII.

> There were some discussions a while ago about the mix or even confusion between
> the actual HW description (that's what the dts is supposed to do) and the settings
> one wants to represent in SW (i.e. speed) denoted loosely by denominations like
> 10G Base-R. 

The "confusion" comes from an abuse of terms. Abused terms really
can't adequately be used to describe hardware properties.

As I say above, we _know_ that some manufacturers state that their
single lane serdes is "SGMII" when it is in fact 1000base-X. That
doesn't mean we stuff "sgmii" into device tree because that's what
the vendor decided to call it.

"sgmii" in the device tree means Cisco's well defined SGMII and
does not mean 1000base-X.

-- 
RMK's Patch system: https://www.armlinux.org.uk/developer/patches/
FTTP is here! 40Mbps down 10Mbps up. Decent connectivity at last!

  parent reply	other threads:[~2021-06-04 19:30 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 29+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-06-03 14:34 Pali Rohár
2021-06-03 15:12 ` Andrew Lunn
2021-06-03 19:48   ` Pali Rohár
2021-06-04  7:35     ` Madalin Bucur
2021-06-04 17:32       ` Pali Rohár
2021-06-04 19:13         ` Madalin Bucur
2021-06-04 19:27       ` Russell King (Oracle) [this message]
2021-06-04 19:39         ` Madalin Bucur
2021-06-04 20:00           ` Russell King (Oracle)
2021-06-04 21:37             ` Madalin Bucur
2021-06-04 20:23           ` Andrew Lunn
2021-06-04 21:47             ` Madalin Bucur
2021-06-04 23:34               ` Pali Rohár
2021-06-05  0:33                 ` Russell King (Oracle)
2021-06-05 12:26                   ` Vladimir Oltean
2021-06-05 12:50                     ` What is inside GPON SFP module? (Was: Re: Unsupported phy-connection-type sgmii-2500 in arch/powerpc/boot/dts/fsl/t1023rdb.dts) Pali Rohár
2021-06-05 13:04                       ` Hauke Mehrtens
2021-06-05 13:31                         ` What is inside GPON SFP module? Pali Rohár
2021-06-05 14:17                           ` Hauke Mehrtens
2021-06-05 14:41                         ` What is inside GPON SFP module? (Was: Re: Unsupported phy-connection-type sgmii-2500 in arch/powerpc/boot/dts/fsl/t1023rdb.dts) Russell King (Oracle)
2021-06-08 10:33                           ` What is inside GPON SFP module? Pali Rohár
2021-06-19 20:35                 ` Unsupported phy-connection-type sgmii-2500 in arch/powerpc/boot/dts/fsl/t1023rdb.dts Pali Rohár
2021-07-04 13:43                 ` [PATCH] powerpc/fsl/dts: Fix phy-connection-type for fm1mac3 Pali Rohár
2021-07-14 17:11                   ` Scott Wood
2021-08-27 11:38                     ` Pali Rohár
2021-09-28 21:39                       ` Pali Rohár
2021-09-29 14:25                         ` Andrew Lunn
2021-10-02  9:06                           ` Pali Rohár
2021-06-04 23:18         ` Unsupported phy-connection-type sgmii-2500 in arch/powerpc/boot/dts/fsl/t1023rdb.dts Pali Rohár

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